Second AMA by FICO officials

3 years ago

Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:34 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 46 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:28 pm This is old news, but I just learned about it. We all know about the AMA that Tom Quinn et al did at MF in the fall of 2020. They did another one in early 2021, on Reddit. It has fewer insights than the MF edition, but there were a few things that piqued my interest on first readthrough. For example, Tommy Lee said that Scores 10 and 10T were already being used by some lenders. I didn't know that. Do we know any more details?

I remember going through that Reddit AMA to see if anyone asked something new compared to what we all asked in the first MF AMA. If a lender uses it to make a decision, they would have to provide reason codes for it and someone should have seen that on a letter by now. They may be using it internally as a prescreen tool or something. FICO has a PDF sell-sheet about FICO Score 10 here: https://www.fico.com/en/resource-access/download/13871

3 years ago

Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:40 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 46 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago

I'd like to see a reference or two of someone that's using 10 at this stage of the game.

3 years ago

Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:55 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

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Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 46 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago

Yes I’ve also read that and no I don’t know of anybody using 10.

3 years ago

Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:35 am

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level34 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 10 months, 13 hours, and 14 minutes Next Level in29 days, 10 hours, and 46 minutes on October 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 10 months, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached10 months, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:34 pm
Justaguy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:28 pm This is old news, but I just learned about it. We all know about the AMA that Tom Quinn et al did at MF in the fall of 2020. They did another one in early 2021, on Reddit. It has fewer insights than the MF edition, but there were a few things that piqued my interest on first readthrough. For example, Tommy Lee said that Scores 10 and 10T were already being used by some lenders. I didn't know that. Do we know any more details?
I remember going through that Reddit AMA to see if anyone asked something new compared to what we all asked in the first MF AMA. If a lender uses it to make a decision, they would have to provide reason codes for it and someone should have seen that on a letter by now. They may be using it internally as a prescreen tool or something. FICO has a PDF sell-sheet about FICO Score 10 here: https://www.fico.com/en/resource-access/download/13871

What if 10 uses some/mostly/all the same reason statements as earlier models? Given that lenders don’t have to disclose which score version(s) they use, might we not notice? We do fairly often see people mention AA letters in which a score is provided that doesn’t match up with any of their known scores. Could it be that some of those instances are Score 10 hiding in plain sight?

3 years ago

Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:50 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 46 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:35 am What if 10 uses some/mostly/all the same reason statements as earlier models? Given that lenders don’t have to disclose which score version(s) they use, might we not notice? We do fairly often see people mention AA letters in which a score is provided that doesn’t match up with any of their known scores. Could it be that some of those instances are Score 10 hiding in plain sight?

I always forget that they aren't required to disclose the scoring model used! Yes, you're right, we might not even know it's being used. FICO says the reason statements provided are 'consistent with prior versions'. But they also had this to say about the 10 T model (with trended data, vs straight 10 without): "While FICO Score 10 T shares many similar features with other FICO Scores, new reason codes for consumer communication support its use of additional credit characteristics to enhance predictiveness. Those additional 'new reason codes' might not even show up on an AA letter, even when FICO 10 T was used.

3 years ago

Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:00 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 46 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 14 minutes ago

I don't know, from my experience it seems the majority of the time reason statements and a score are provided the scoring model is usually referenced somewhere. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've usually found it disclosed in the fine print somewhere within the document.