I gained 9 points on TU8 this week, but the only changes on my report were the following: Balance on one of my three open loans fell by $288 Two old, closed loans dropped off I'll go into more detail to support this theory, but I think the cause of the point gain was that Util on one of my loans -- but not my highest -- fell below 80%. I don't think it is conventional wisdom that individual loan Util other than the highest one matters for scoring. But I don't see a better explanation here. For context, this is a pretty clean DP. I did my monthly 3B pull on 2/1. My TU8 that day was 825. According to an alert I got on 2/3, my score went up to 834 on 2/2. I also got two alerts from MF that day about total loan balance declining and some accounts being removed, but we all know that not every change produces an alert, so I didn't assume those were the only changes. I pulled a TU report from ACR on 2/4. It confirmed that nothing else had changed. Here's the before->after of various things related to loan balances and utilization: Total Balance on Loans: $115,985->$115,697 Aggregate Loan Utilization: 85.4%->85.2% Balance of the loan that changed: $8,349->$8,061 Utilization on the loan that changed: 81%->78% Utilization on other loan (larger): 91% (no change) Utilization on other loan (smaller): 47% (no change) The only thing there that looks plausibly thresholdy to me is Util on the loan that changed. I guess there could be a Total Balance on Loans threshold ($ not %) that's a non-round number in the $115k range. Of course, the removal of two old loans shifted my aging metrics a little. Here's the before->after on all of those that could have been affected: AAoA: 9y4m->9y1m AoOA: 27y5m (no change) AAoIA: 10y4m->10y1m AoOIA: 16y7m (no change) There's nothing there that could cause any score gain, let alone 9 points. Now let's turn to reason statements. First: Loan balances->New account Second: New account->Loan balances Third: Seeking credit (no change) Fourth: Short revolving history (no change) I didn't have any new accounts show up, so this is just a case of Loan balances diminishing in importance and dropping from first position to second. There is one other explanation I'm considering. My youngest account (a card) reached 3 months of age on 2/1. I think FICO aging calculations sometimes update a day early or a day late. So perhaps the points I saw on 2/3, which actually appeared on 2/2, were a delayed result of AoYA going from 2m to 3m. But if that was a scoring threshold, it would surely be well known. And this theory isn't supported by the change in my reason statements. So, what do you think? Could it be that TU8 has a significant scoring threshold based on having one or two loans with Util above 80%? Do you see another explanation that I'm missing?
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

17 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:34 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
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Justaguy wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:51 pm Per a discussion you and I had at the other site, I have been unable to generate any point gains on any F8 from lowering my balances on cards.
Can you elaborate on that a bit? I'm sure that's a discussion you guys had after I was gone. When you say lowering your balances on cards, what sort of before/after balances & percentages are you talking?
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

18 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:09 am
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Justaguy
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From memory, I was hunting for the suspected ~$4K threshold for Total Revolving Balance, while also trying to settle a debate @Birdman and I were having about whether open-ended cards’ balances are included. I think I went from like $6K to around $2K and saw no score change, regardless of the treatment of open-ended cards. I looked for the thread yesterday and came up empty. I’ll keep looking. FWIW I have now gone down to $200 and, I think, still no changes that I can attribute to card balances.
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

19 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:01 pm
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Birdman
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No I don’t think there’s a minimum and maximum and aggregate based on documentation. But you have in fact stumbled upon the separate metric for personal finance accounts. Yes there is separate metrics for that on certain versions and TransUnion is correct if memory serves.

I think you have demonstrated that personal finance accounts are calculated separately from installment accounts, something the reason codes already indicate. So you definitely need to look at their percentages just of the personal finance accounts and then just of the installment accounts independently. Also consider Balances. And yes pinning down some of the balance thresholds on version eight have been difficult, but we know that they are there.

But yes there’s multiple Metrics, highest individual Revolving, Aggregate Revolving, Aggregate Loan, aggregate personal finance, Credit Balances, retail utilization and Balances and possibly Mortgage Metrics.
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

20 of 31
3 years ago
Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:07 am
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Cassie
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BrutalBodyShots wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:12 pm
Justaguy wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:12 pm Good call. Think @Cassie has any friends who are willing to do this? It’s for science!
She may. I know she's got someone that just hit 6 months with a single revolver. To my knowledge they have no open loans. Really we can target anyone (likely starting out) that's interested in acquiring their first/only SSL. Then we've just got to twist their arm to go with a few rather than just one... ;)
I couldn't even get her to do a full myFICO 3B pull last month when her single-account file just turned 6 months old. :( I said I'd pay for it, but she just didn't want to 'deal with it all', meaning another login, another company having access to her data, etc. She just likes to keep things simple. I can't even get her to do the free Experian Basic credit monitoring with the monthly EX8 score. So all we're going to get is her monthly Bank of America provided TU8 score. (750 at 6 months in with a single credit card account on file - her first FICO credit score.)
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

21 of 31
3 years ago
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:03 am
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BrutalBodyShots
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That's too bad. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do though. Maybe if she hangs around the forum a bit she'll gain further interest.
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

22 of 31
3 years ago
Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:55 am
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Birdman
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TU8 is better than nothing!
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

23 of 31
3 years ago
Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:28 pm
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Birdman
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@Justaguy also to one of the things you mentioned, I have no doubt there is a cap for each factor within a category as well as you allude to, or a maximum award of points from each factor. Is the loan that was 85% the only one that shows up as a personal finance account? And the others are just installment? Does that hash out? because I was just revising part of the Primer last night and going over some of those codes. I made it through the intro payment history and amount of debt. Ive still got to do a final polish, but I got most of those sections revised. Not published yet. So I’m back to the bump and grind. I’m going to try to get it knocked out and revised it’s quickly as I can.
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

24 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:22 pm
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Justaguy
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Birdman wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:28 pm Is the loan that was 85% the only one that shows up as a personal finance account? And the others are just installment? Does that hash out?
No, that’s not quite right. Here is how it looks from TU’s perspective: PERSONAL FINANCE ACCOUNTS Student Loan Util as of 2/1: 91% Util as of 2/3: 91% Auto Lease Util as of 2/1: 81% Util as of 2/3: 78% OTHER INSTALLMENT ACCOUNTS Other Loan Util as of 2/1: 47% Util as of 2/3: 47%
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

25 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:01 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
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Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 28 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago
Maybe a dumb question, but is this from your real TU CR or from a CMS?
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

26 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:51 pm
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Justaguy
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BrutalBodyShots wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:01 pm Maybe a dumb question, but is this from your real TU CR or from a CMS?
The balance data is from a mix of both, and it’s consistent across sources. ACR, MF, CK, etc. I’m calculating the Util numbers myself, based on the original loan amounts. For the classifications as PF or not, I’m relying entirely on the Alerts I get from MF. I don’t know of any other way to see those classifications. Do you?
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

27 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:27 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
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Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 28 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago
How are they classified on your report from ACR? Do they match what MF shows? If so, I'd say going off of MF is just fine. If not, I'd say your real hard copy CR holds the most water and would go with that.
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

28 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:31 pm
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Birdman
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Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 28 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago
Justaguy wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:22 pm
Birdman wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:28 pm Is the loan that was 85% the only one that shows up as a personal finance account? And the others are just installment? Does that hash out?
No, that’s not quite right. Here is how it looks from TU’s perspective: PERSONAL FINANCE ACCOUNTS Student Loan Util as of 2/1: 91% Util as of 2/3: 91% Auto Lease Util as of 2/1: 81% Util as of 2/3: 78% OTHER INSTALLMENT ACCOUNTS Other Loan Util as of 2/1: 47% Util as of 2/3: 47%
@Justaguy so all three are personal finance? Where did the 85% come from?
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

29 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:47 pm
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Justaguy
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Level34 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 10 months, 13 hours, and 32 minutes Next Level in29 days, 10 hours, and 28 minutes on October 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 10 months, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached10 months, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago
Nope. The one at 47% is not Personal Finance, in TU’s eyes.

85% is the Util number I get if I include all three loans. One could call it All Installment Accounts Utilization. Before I knew there was a PF/non-PF split, I thought that was the aggregate loan Util that counted. Now I’m just… confused.

My Aggregate Util on PF loans was 90% before and after this recent 9pt gain.
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

30 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:56 pm
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Justaguy
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Level34 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 10 months, 13 hours, and 32 minutes Next Level in29 days, 10 hours, and 28 minutes on October 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 10 months, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached10 months, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago
Post was altered.
Last edited by Justaguy on Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
BrutalBodyShots wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:27 pm How are they classified on your report from ACR? Do they match what MF shows? If so, I'd say going off of MF is just fine. If not, I'd say your real hard copy CR holds the most water and would go with that.
These are the only classifications I can see on the report I get from ACR: Student Loan Account Type: Installment Account Loan Type: Student Loan Auto Lease Account Type: Installment Account Loan Type: Auto Lease Other Loan Account Type: Installment Account Loan Type: Unsecured ETA: Sorry! I failed to answer your second question. MF matches ACR on these details, except instead of "Unsecured" for the loan type on the third one, MF says "Other."
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Re: 9 pt Gain on TU8 with Trivial Changes

31 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:34 am
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Birdman
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Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 28 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 32 minutes ago
I apologize you did split them in to PF/non-PF to begin with! OK here’s what I know, some bureaus and versions consider auto and certain types of loan metrics separately. It is in the Primer, with reference to the reason codes. But the personal finance distinction I also believe exists, but only at TransUnion. As a matter fact I think I added it to the revised version of the Primer that Cassie‘s about to publish. So beware, I have revised the entire Primer and added some sections, so you might want to reread it when she publishes the revision soon and then give me any feedback you have. I still have to do a few polishes and edits here and there, but the major revision is done finally!
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