Credit Rebels Somewhere we have recently looked into this, and I confess, cannot find the postings :( It is important to note as I write the Federal Reserve has stated they can adjust processing fees and likely will. Some protectors of consumer's state we will not benefit, and corporations will find their best advantage. This is likely. Now it is receiving much press as Congress is looking at their actions back to 2008 coupled with the Federal Reserve and both are indicating a lean towards some forms of modifications (note in the press the last few days and today). Speculation around the consumers is loss of card benefits. We do know that most travel benefits evaporated not too long ago. It is offered that processing fees add to a financials' bottom line, and they will seek ways to keep that income. Some look at that the rewards will receive a hit. :cry: As I wrote previously on this topic, there was a time when Bank Americards/Visa, Master Charge/Master Card, Discover and American Express offered a credit card that allowed you to charge your goods and services and revolve for 19.9% plus with no benefits. Revolving even had repayment of balances tied to 5% or 10% a month of the outstanding balance which was certainly a challenge. Of note, credit limits were pretty much $300 to maybe $5,000. Of this I speak with personal experience. My first Bank Americard was a $300 limit in 1973. Later the Gold Cards came into existence, and you were offered a few travel type benefits (around 1979 more or less) if you qualified for $5,000 credit limits. What I am referencing goes back to the 1960's on up into the early 1990s. Pay attention as there seems a very renewed interest in this matter and as focused as our Congress is who knows? :very-mad:
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Debit & Credit Cards processing fees

1 of 6
11 months ago
Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:39 pm
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Dinosaur
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Credit Rebels Somewhere we have recently looked into this, and I confess, cannot find the postings :( It is important to note as I write the Federal Reserve has stated they can adjust processing fees and likely will. Some protectors of consumer's state we will not benefit, and corporations will find their best advantage. This is likely. Now it is receiving much press as Congress is looking at their actions back to 2008 coupled with the Federal Reserve and both are indicating a lean towards some forms of modifications (note in the press the last few days and today). Speculation around the consumers is loss of card benefits. We do know that most travel benefits evaporated not too long ago. It is offered that processing fees add to a financials' bottom line, and they will seek ways to keep that income. Some look at that the rewards will receive a hit. :cry: As I wrote previously on this topic, there was a time when Bank Americards/Visa, Master Charge/Master Card, Discover and American Express offered a credit card that allowed you to charge your goods and services and revolve for 19.9% plus with no benefits. Revolving even had repayment of balances tied to 5% or 10% a month of the outstanding balance which was certainly a challenge. Of note, credit limits were pretty much $300 to maybe $5,000. Of this I speak with personal experience. My first Bank Americard was a $300 limit in 1973. Later the Gold Cards came into existence, and you were offered a few travel type benefits (around 1979 more or less) if you qualified for $5,000 credit limits. What I am referencing goes back to the 1960's on up into the early 1990s. Pay attention as there seems a very renewed interest in this matter and as focused as our Congress is who knows? :very-mad:
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Re: Debit & Credit Cards processing fees

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11 months ago
Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:18 pm
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Saeren
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Honestly the banks will lose insane amounts of business if they slash credit card rewards and they know it. People who don't carry balances will just go back to debit cards and those of us who refuse to use debit cards will pick a low interest card, the kind we can't get from major banks. There's little chance that rewards will evaporate. There will probably be some modifications but I am sure the credit card companies can make up the income in other ways. We may see more AFs but honestly rewards can be paid in most cases with a modest APR increase or just capping them like the 5% cards do.

Time will tell I guess.
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Re: Debit & Credit Cards processing fees

3 of 6
11 months ago
Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:44 pm
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Cassie
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Dinosaur wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:39 pm Somewhere we have recently looked into this, and I confess, cannot find the postings :(
It was here under Credit News. Here's an article from today that has some interesting information about Europe's efforts to reduce transaction fees and how that's working out. They're capped at 0.3% - significantly lower than here. A new congressional bill on credit cards is going to 'kill' flier miles and airline reward programs: United CEO
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Re: Debit & Credit Cards processing fees

4 of 6
11 months ago
Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:00 pm
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Dinosaur
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Saeren wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:18 pm Honestly the banks will lose insane amounts of business if they slash credit card rewards and they know it. People who don't carry balances will just go back to debit cards and those of us who refuse to use debit cards will pick a low interest card, the kind we can't get from major banks. There's little chance that rewards will evaporate. There will probably be some modifications but I am sure the credit card companies can make up the income in other ways. We may see more AFs but honestly rewards can be paid in most cases with a modest APR increase or just capping them like the 5% cards do. Time will tell I guess.
As I wrote recently ... back in the day banks issued credit cards soley to facilitate charging with a nice 19.9% or higher interest rate when revolving balances. Rewards when they started were confined to the Gold Cards and a slightly lower interest on revolving because Gold Cards were actually issued only to those with higher credit ratings. Times have changed. In my opinion it could be the end of higher end card benefits and that would affect airlines, hotels and the hospitality industry. Maybe a .05% to $1.00 spent or something like that? Do remember back to 2010 when Discover had Discover Cards issued through other lenders that paid 0.25% on every dollar spent as I actually had one. As you stated: "time will tell I guess" ... :(
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Re: Debit & Credit Cards processing fees

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11 months ago
Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:30 pm
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Beefy
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Saeren wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:18 pm Honestly the banks will lose insane amounts of business if they slash credit card rewards and they know it. People who don't carry balances will just go back to debit cards and those of us who refuse to use debit cards will pick a low interest card, the kind we can't get from major banks. There's little chance that rewards will evaporate. There will probably be some modifications but I am sure the credit card companies can make up the income in other ways. We may see more AFs but honestly rewards can be paid in most cases with a modest APR increase or just capping them like the 5% cards do. Time will tell I guess.
I was reading swipe fees cost about 60 billion and rewards programs pay out about 40 billion, of those rewards programs they are also supplemented by those 95-695 annual fees. Roughly 47% of of card holders carry a balance with an average apr of 20.9% honestly I find it hard to believe. The average rewards card couldn’t be paid out by a slight apr rise credit card debt is currently sitting at 1.03 trillion 1.03 trillion * 20.9% is over 200 billion a year. Even if swipe fees went to 0% Heaven forbid banks “only” make 160b on interest plus annual fees. that 40b in rewards includes cash equivalent like hotel/air travel that they are buying at a discount rate anyway. Sure some cards might turn into money losers but I have been saying this for a long time. Rewards programs do not need to be supplemented by swipe fees. AOD shouldn’t have been losing money on a 3% cb card and 5% rotators are not losing issuers money either. This is literally banks scuffling with international conglomerates over who gets to keep an extra 2-3 cents on the dollar. The amount of money they will lose from this relative to what Walmart and BoA rake in is a rounding error. Yes I know I am talking about 60b as if it is nothing but compared to the trillions in transactions they are processing it really is. Think about it a BT card typically charges 3% to transfer they make money on those offers if they didn’t they wouldn’t offer them. This is greed all around and threatening to kill off is rewards programs is just the height of greed
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Re: Debit & Credit Cards processing fees

6 of 6
11 months ago
Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:39 pm
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Dinosaur
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Beefy wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:30 pm
Saeren wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:18 pm Honestly the banks will lose insane amounts of business if they slash credit card rewards and they know it. People who don't carry balances will just go back to debit cards and those of us who refuse to use debit cards will pick a low interest card, the kind we can't get from major banks. There's little chance that rewards will evaporate. There will probably be some modifications but I am sure the credit card companies can make up the income in other ways. We may see more AFs but honestly rewards can be paid in most cases with a modest APR increase or just capping them like the 5% cards do. Time will tell I guess.
I was reading swipe fees cost about 60 billion and rewards programs pay out about 40 billion, of those rewards programs they are also supplemented by those 95-695 annual fees. Roughly 47% of of card holders carry a balance with an average apr of 20.9% honestly I find it hard to believe. The average rewards card couldn’t be paid out by a slight apr rise credit card debt is currently sitting at 1.03 trillion 1.03 trillion * 20.9% is over 200 billion a year. Even if swipe fees went to 0% Heaven forbid banks “only” make 160b on interest plus annual fees. that 40b in rewards includes cash equivalent like hotel/air travel that they are buying at a discount rate anyway. Sure some cards might turn into money losers but I have been saying this for a long time. Rewards programs do not need to be supplemented by swipe fees. AOD shouldn’t have been losing money on a 3% cb card and 5% rotators are not losing issuers money either. This is literally banks scuffling with international conglomerates over who gets to keep an extra 2-3 cents on the dollar. The amount of money they will lose from this relative to what Walmart and BoA rake in is a rounding error. Yes I know I am talking about 60b as if it is nothing but compared to the trillions in transactions they are processing it really is. Think about it a BT card typically charges 3% to transfer they make money on those offers if they didn’t they wouldn’t offer them. This is greed all around and threatening to kill off is rewards programs is just the height of greed
After reading your post I almost wonder if the financials really want the government types to kill off the rewards so they can go back to a simpler way of life and blame the government?! As I wrote a few months back, in my community the Chamber and businesses got together, and all added 3.99% processing fee if you used a credit or debit card. The Ford Dealer and I got into it as I said what are you going to do when the old folks are gone, and the younger generations don't buy the paper check or cash routine? He got mad and left after informing me it would save him around $100,000 a year. Oops! Money talks and Bull S___ Walks! Or is it to cut off your nose to spite your face? Ok?
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