Both TU/EQ VS3 not at 850

4 months ago

Fri May 24, 2024 11:16 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in6 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:00 am The only thing I can see clearly that changed was that an inquiry just fell off of my TU report (at 2 years of age). Maybe this is evidence that unlike Fico models where inquiries are scoreable for 365 days, they are scoreable for the full 2 years on VS3? Or, perhaps it's just another fluke. [Quoted post had an image here.]

VS3 definitely considers inquiries for the full 2 years, but every data point I've seen to confirm that only resulted in a gain of a few points. My friend with the single card profile and my own profile when I had 5 accounts on file - closed SSL + 4 revolving. I only got +2 points, she got a little more - I think +4 or +5. I know VS3 has scorecards, so we were definitely on a very different one from yours. That +12 really could have come from the inq dropping off.

4 months ago

Sat May 25, 2024 2:43 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in15 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

Strange stuff. I would think an inquiry on a more established file would be "worth" less points than on a thin/young file (similar to Fico) but who knows with VS3.

4 months ago

Sat May 25, 2024 12:10 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in6 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 2:43 am Strange stuff. I would think an inquiry on a more established file would be "worth" less points than on a thin/young file (similar to Fico) but who knows with VS3.

+12 from the inq falling off alone really doesn't seem right to me either. Does our calculator show anything green in the VantageScore aging section? If there was some special aging threshold with VS3, the score update from aging alone might have happened on the 14th. Or maybe your VS3 and FICO ages already match anyway? If one of the accounts was opened after the 13th, that can make them different.

3 months ago

Sun May 26, 2024 6:57 pm

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:00 am I posted a while back that my EQ VS3 was at 850. It's sort of bounced from 838 to 850 back to 837-839 back to 850 for what feels like nearing a year now. I've never been able to identify any real changes to warrant the score fluctuations and just talked it up to an EQ VS3 fluke. Well, today I see that my TU VS3 is also 850. I wouldn't think at this point in the month that an aging metric would be impacted. The only thing I can see clearly that changed was that an inquiry just fell off of my TU report (at 2 years of age). Maybe this is evidence that unlike Fico models where inquiries are scoreable for 365 days, they are scoreable for the full 2 years on VS3? Or, perhaps it's just another fluke. I'm monitoring my EX VS3 now through my Chase account just to see if I complete the trifecta of 850s. My EX report I believe contains one more CC account than TU/EQ; it's a closed CC from 2017. Not sure if that'll make any difference. Any thoughts on the 850s? Like you @Cassie, I always believed the top end for VS3 to be 841 or so, as in all of my years at MF I don't think I ever saw a single VS3 referenced above 841. It was the highest I could seemingly get mine for years as well, until these random jumps to 850. Strange stuff! [Quoted post had an image here.]

I mentioned this 2 years ago and then verified it to the day like 3-4 times...

+12 from the inq falling off alone really doesn't seem right to me either.

@Cassie When I first started building credit I noticed a weird spread inquiries within the same calendar month seemed to be progressively a hard penalty. As in HP on and the 5th and 25th were a larger penalty, than 2 HP on the 25th and then the 5th despite the latter being closer together. I don't have a large dataset to prove this, and it was years ago but perhaps accurate we know VS does some other rounding for aging that fico doesn't. Or perhaps VS has some scorecards and zero hp and 1 hp causes an algorithm change similar to no new revolver/new revolver that includes a point shift profile dependent. VS doesn't have nearly the same years/decades of community testing, being largely considered irrelevant. I think the shift to mortgages soon will be an eye opener when people start getting denied mortgages or unexpected rates based on VS scores.

3 months ago

Sun May 26, 2024 7:30 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in15 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 6:57 pm I think the shift to mortgages soon will be an eye opener when people start getting denied mortgages or unexpected rates based on VS scores.

That'll be VS4 though, not VS3, right?

3 months ago

Sun May 26, 2024 7:37 pm

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:30 pm
Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 6:57 pm I think the shift to mortgages soon will be an eye opener when people start getting denied mortgages or unexpected rates based on VS scores.
That'll be VS4 though, not VS3, right?

Correct which I believe is just VS3 with trended data, but that is a WAG on my part.

3 months ago

Mon May 27, 2024 2:27 am

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in2 hours and 7 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 2 hours, and 7 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 2 hours, and 7 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 2 hours, and 7 minutes

Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:37 pm
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:30 pm
Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 6:57 pm I think the shift to mortgages soon will be an eye opener when people start getting denied mortgages or unexpected rates based on VS scores.
That'll be VS4 though, not VS3, right?
Correct which I believe is just VS3 with trended data, but that is a WAG on my part.

Open to a little "wag" on my part?

3 months ago

Mon May 27, 2024 7:03 am

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes

Dinosaur wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:27 am
Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:37 pm
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:30 pm That'll be VS4 though, not VS3, right?
Correct which I believe is just VS3 with trended data, but that is a WAG on my part.
Open to a little "wag" on my part?

Sir.... This is a Wendy's.

3 months ago

Mon May 27, 2024 7:43 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in15 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:37 pm Correct which I believe is just VS3 with trended data, but that is a WAG on my part.

You don't think any tweaks were made to the algorithm other than the addition of TD? I would assume other changes were made as well, but I definitely have absolutely no idea. From what I've seen, VS4 is FAR easier to max out than VS3.

3 months ago

Mon May 27, 2024 8:48 pm

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 7:43 pm
Beefy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 7:37 pm Correct which I believe is just VS3 with trended data, but that is a WAG on my part.
You don't think any tweaks were made to the algorithm other than the addition of TD? I would assume other changes were made as well, but I definitely have absolutely no idea. From what I've seen, VS4 is FAR easier to max out than VS3.

yea as I said WAG (Wild Ass Guess) I have no clue about vs4 other than it is trended.

3 months ago

Tue May 28, 2024 1:19 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in6 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

Some interesting information about VS4: The VantageScore 4.0 model was built using a refreshed data set from 2014-2016, which takes into account the latest credit products and trends in consumer behavior. Development was based on 45 million credit files of anonymized consumers from all three CRCs. As with VantageScore 3.0, VantageScore 4.0 optimizes the originations and account management data concentration in order to maximize performance value on both types of loans. ... Segment 3 scores consumers with ‘Thin files,’ i.e., those with two or fewer trades, or no trade older than 6 months. Segments 4 thru 7 score ‘Full file’ consumers, those with 3 or more trades. Consumers are assigned to one of these full file scorecards based on their risk severity. That's from a VS4 overview PDF (loads the PDF) on Experian's website. Page 4 for a graphic showing the various scorecards.

3 months ago

Wed May 29, 2024 12:02 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in15 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

Good info! I did not know that VS considered 2 accounts thin and 3 accounts thick for scorecard segmentation. That's a difference between VS and Fico for sure.

3 months ago

Wed May 29, 2024 1:35 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in6 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:02 pm Good info! I did not know that VS considered 2 accounts thin and 3 accounts thick for scorecard segmentation. That's a difference between VS and Fico for sure.

I distinctly remember the guys from FICO dodging the question of what's considered a 'thick or thin file'. Just didn't want to give that up! But we know it's 'greater than 3' for thick files from the PDFs they used during lender training sessions. VS3 specifically defined it in one of their whitepapers: Quoting: "“A consumer with less than three credit accounts or “trades” in his or her credit file is defined as having a “thin file” whereas a consumer with three or more accounts/trades is defined as having a “thick file." So VS3 and now VS4 use the same definition.

3 months ago

Wed May 29, 2024 3:57 pm

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes

Cassie wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 1:35 pm
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 12:02 pm Good info! I did not know that VS considered 2 accounts thin and 3 accounts thick for scorecard segmentation. That's a difference between VS and Fico for sure.
I distinctly remember the guys from FICO dodging the question of what's considered a 'thick or thin file'. Just didn't want to give that up! But we know it's 'greater than 3' for thick files from the PDFs they used during lender training sessions. VS3 specifically defined it in one of their whitepapers: Quoting: "“A consumer with less than three credit accounts or “trades” in his or her credit file is defined as having a “thin file” whereas a consumer with three or more accounts/trades is defined as having a “thick file." So VS3 and now VS4 use the same definition.

It really puts in perspective how crazy CK suggesting you need like 15 tradelines is CK is a dumpster fire of bad advice. /edit excuse me 21+ 11-20 is only “fair”

3 months ago

Wed May 29, 2024 7:50 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes Next Level in6 days, 2 hours, and 7 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 21 hours, and 53 minutes ago

Beefy wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 3:57 pm It really puts in perspective how crazy CK suggesting you need like 15 tradelines is CK is a dumpster fire of bad advice.

"Fair". lol Yeah, so people will want to add more accounts - through their portal, of course. There won't be any fine for that one: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds ... settlement