Thresholds for Open Installment Aging?

3 years ago

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:13 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
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Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 25 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago

Like revolving accounts, I was under the impression that both open and closed installment accounts on your CR are factored in equally in terms of aging metrics. Naturally (like revolvers) utilization isn't considered or factored in when it comes to close/paid off accounts.

Any score changes you experienced due to closing installment accounts I would think came from the Amounts Owed sector of the Fico pie, not the changing of aging metrics due to closure(s). Anyone else have opinions on this?

FICO8 EX: 715 EQ: 724 TU: 735 As of 4/6/22

3 years ago

Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:17 am

aj2121

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Level28 Last INQSaturday, April 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 4 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 25 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onSunday, April 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 4 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, April 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached4 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago

Just going off of the content from the primer:

C.AoOIA-Age of Oldest Installment Account and AAoIA-Average Age of Installment Accounts are scoring factors Apparently not tracked by TU8. Negative reason codes point to this metric. Link. D. AoOOIA-Age of Oldest Open Installment Account and AAoOIA-Average Age ofOpen Installment Accounts are scoring factors Apparently not tracked by EQ8. Negative reason codes point to this metric on some variants. Link, Link. E.AoOMA-Age of Oldest Mortgage Account and AAoMA-Average Age of Mortgage Accounts are scoring factors Apparently not tracked by EQ8. F. AoOOMA-Age of Oldest Open Mortgage Account and AAoOMA-Average Age of Open Mortgage Accounts are scoring factors Apparently not tracked by EQ8.

Based on data I have, which I need to dig deeper into, the score changes either came from crossing aging thresholds for open installment accounts or there are awards for individual installment utilization and I lost those awards when the accounts closed and they no longer had utilization. I am leaning more toward the scores resulting from aging changes as most data we have indicates that installment utilization is aggregate.

3 years ago

Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:44 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 25 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago

I guess I'd like to see some of those aging factors for loans quantified / what sort of score gains/losses were realized at what threshold points.

3 years ago

Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:13 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 25 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago

No installment account metrics generally do not include mortgages. Yes certain models do take into account oldest open installment account and average age of open installment accounts, and separately for mortgages. These are not big scoring factors but they are scoring factors. Unfortunately not many data points have been collected for that and therefore I’ve not been able to analyze it yet. Your data points could be very useful in learning more. And closed accounts may potentially count in utilization if they still have a balance.

FICO8 EX: 715 EQ: 724 TU: 735 As of 4/6/22

3 years ago

Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:12 pm

aj2121

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aj2121 has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level28 Last INQSaturday, April 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 4 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 25 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onSunday, April 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 4 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, April 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached4 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:13 am No installment account metrics generally do not include mortgages. Yes certain models do take into account oldest open installment account and average age of open installment accounts, and separately for mortgages. These are not big scoring factors but they are scoring factors. Unfortunately not many data points have been collected for that and therefore I’ve not been able to analyze it yet. Your data points could be very useful in learning more. And closed accounts may potentially count and utilization if they still have a balance.

Thanks for the details, I hadn't seen these metrics discussed much, so I wasn't sure the specifics. The biggest point swing I saw that may correlate with the change in age of open installment accounts was 13 points. That also coincides with aggregate utilization going from just under 90% to over 90%, so there may be a small threshold there as well that contributed to those points. I need to go back through and analyze this data some more and actually calculate the aging metrics for open installments at those times

3 years ago

Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:13 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 25 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 35 minutes ago

aj2121 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:12 pm
Birdman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:13 am No installment account metrics generally do not include mortgages. Yes certain models do take into account oldest open installment account and average age of open installment accounts, and separately for mortgages. These are not big scoring factors but they are scoring factors. Unfortunately not many data points have been collected for that and therefore I’ve not been able to analyze it yet. Your data points could be very useful in learning more. And closed accounts may potentially count and utilization if they still have a balance.
Thanks for the details, I hadn't seen these metrics discussed much, so I wasn't sure the specifics. The biggest point swing I saw that may correlate with the change in age of open installment accounts was 13 points. That also coincides with aggregate utilization going from just under 90% to over 90%, so there may be a small threshold there as well that contributed to those points. I need to go back through and analyze this data some more and actually calculate the aging metrics for open installments at those times

That would seem a little high for that unless it was The oldest open loan by far, but as I said, data points are sparse. Your speculation that it was conflated is probably correct. Unless it was the oldest by far. Definitely love to hear your analysis after you check it out. That’s one of the things we need to start tracking more closely and collecting data points regarding.