EX8 & EX2 Data Point: Maxing out 2 CCs

2 years ago

Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:23 pm

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Experian FICO 2: -61 points, 774 -> 713. AWB I crossed 50% of open revolving accounts reporting a balance. I'll have to test my current profile to see what are the thresholds for it and associated score loss. Before negative reason codes: Short account history High credit usage Accounts with balances Seeking credit After negative reason codes: High credit usage Short account history Accounts with balances Seeking credit

2 years ago

Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:12 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing the data on these changes.

On factor we aren't able to ever quantify really is the impact of the increase of raw dollars on score drops. We know they matter, just not how much. I wouldn't expect raw dollars to account for more than say 10%-15% of the drops, but it would be awesome to be able to pull that out from the utilization changes which of course make up the meat and potatoes all the time.

2 years ago

Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:26 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

It's my pleasure.

I agree, it would be nice to know about the raw dollars. I'll go along with your logic of 10-15%. I have no idea myself.

My $500 limit card is no longer 3 digits. It could have been useful to test by maxing it out and compare it to another maxed out higher limit revolver in the 5 digits while maintaining the similar aggregate utilization threshold.

I do have a couple 4 digit cards. If I'm able to test the comparison of 4 vs 5 in the future, I'll post it.

2 years ago

Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:33 pm

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Here's VantageScore 3.0 From WalletHub

Screenshot_20230220-112018~2.png 183.67 KiB Viewed 213 times

From CreditKarma

Screenshot_20230220-112339~2.png 68.93 KiB Viewed 213 times

2 years ago

Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:40 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

EX2 No change. Experian FICO 8: +10 points going from 11% to 8% aggregate utilization. Aggregate crossed one threshold at 9.5% Individual 2 revolvers reporting 99 & 100% individual utilization. Amount of Debt rating changed from Good to Very Good. AWB Open revolving accounts went from 6 to 5 reporting a balance. Negative reason codes No change.

Screenshot_20230223-111046~2.png 103.58 KiB Viewed 195 times

2 years ago

Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:16 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

VantageScore 3.0: +1 Fako point for the same update as above. From CreditKarma

Screenshot_20230224-010014~2.png 69.32 KiB Viewed 188 times

2 years ago

Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:07 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Loving all this data, @AllZero ! I've been setting new High Balances on all my cards, and the point swings are around +/- 60 points! I can be at 780+ on all F8s and then down to around 720s with $16,000 of $51,000 reporting on 4 of 4 open accounts.Just over 30% aggregate, combined with the dollar balances I'm sure. Waiting to post all that data until I get the score point graphs working here.

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:16 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:07 pm Loving all this data, @AllZero ! I've been setting new High Balances on all my cards, and the point swings are around +/- 60 points! I can be at 780+ on all F8s and then down to around 720s with $16,000 of $51,000 reporting on 4 of 4 open accounts.Just over 30% aggregate, combined with the dollar balances I'm sure. Waiting to post all that data until I get the score point graphs working here.

Good to see you testing out your profile too. I think it may cast a favorable light with the lenders seeing one use the credit given and being responsible in paying off one's debt. I'm guessing most if not all the lenders are compiling all the data collected. It's good evidence to show that, one as a consumer, one may need higher CL when requesting a CLI. The points loss are crazy. Having a decent TCL kinda helps so aggregate utilization doesn't take too much of a beating. ABCD2199's post made me curious to test out my utilization and compare it. I was tentative at first in letting high utilization report on youngish accounts. After they aged, I'm a little more relaxed.

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:06 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

EX2: +3, 713 -> 716. Weird, because when I crossed under 50% AWB on post 6, no change. I'm 37% on open revolvers now. Negative reason codes No change. Experian FICO 8: +5 points. Aggregate Went from 8% to 6% aggregate utilization. Individual 2 revolvers reporting 99 & 100% individual utilization. Amount of Debt rating No change. AWB Open revolving accounts went from 5 to 4 reporting a balance. Before Negative reason codes: High credit usage Short account history Accounts with balances Seeking credit After Negative reason codes: High credit usage Short account history

Screenshot_20230226-002423~2.png 104.95 KiB Viewed 174 times

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:13 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

AllZero wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:06 am Experian FICO 8: +5 points going from 8% to 6% aggregate utilization.

I think that +5 has to be due to a dollar balance change and/or individual utilization change. Just for the hell of it, could you calculate Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines before and after that gain? Probably nothing to that, but Birdman and I did find a reference to it in a graphic once.

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:03 pm

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:13 pm
AllZero wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:06 am Experian FICO 8: +5 points going from 8% to 6% aggregate utilization.
I think that +5 has to be due to a dollar balance change and/or individual utilization change. Just for the hell of it, could you calculate Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines before and after that gain? Probably nothing to that, but Birdman and I did find a reference to it in a graphic once.

You're right. Could be a dollar amount or individual utilization? When I posted it, I was thinking it wasn't correct to note that as a reason for the score gain. I was trying to follow the format. I could have phrased it better. I'll go back and correct it. I'll check my Average Balance Amount...

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:40 pm

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:13 pm I think that +5 has to be due to a dollar balance change and/or individual utilization change. Just for the hell of it, could you calculate Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines before and after that gain?

For this calculation, is it just the ones reporting a balance or all open revolving tradelines? Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines Before ~$3,882 = $19,411/5 ~$1,764 = $19,411/11 After ~$4,057 = $16,229/4 ~$1,475 = $16,229/11

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:59 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:07 pm I've been setting new High Balances on all my cards, and the point swings are around +/- 60 points! I can be at 780+ on all F8s and then down to around 720s with $16,000 of $51,000 reporting on 4 of 4 open accounts.Just over 30% aggregate, combined with the dollar balances I'm sure.

Setting new high balances is always fun. IMO it's a great metric for profile growth in terms of aiding CLI results (both frequency and potency) that often gets overlooked.

2 years ago

Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:01 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:13 pm Just for the hell of it, could you calculate Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines before and after that gain?

Is that a Fico negative reason statement? I'm not sure I've ever seen it personally. If it is, do we know of any threshold points and are they independent of the known single (and aggregate) revolving utilization thresholds?

2 years ago

Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:51 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 2 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 58 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:01 pm
Cassie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:13 pm Just for the hell of it, could you calculate Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines before and after that gain?
Is that a Fico negative reason statement? I'm not sure I've ever seen it personally. If it is, do we know of any threshold points and are they independent of the known single (and aggregate) revolving utilization thresholds?

No, this is just pure speculation by me and Birdman. ( @AllZero , your score reports were perfect, as is - this ABORT value is just something I wonder about.) We found a FICO graphic once that mentioned 'Average Balance on Revolving Tradelines', along with an example point loss. But this could have been merely for show, like this one:

fundamentals-page_37.png 175.79 KiB Viewed 145 times

If that's something tracked deep inside the algorithm, it could just trigger one of the other balance reason codes we're already familiar with.