Aw, Congress is again looking at merchants having multiple access to various financial networks so they can pick the one that is most favorable to them. The story goes it would drive the cost per transaction down and the merchant MAY pass the savings on to the end users. A study that was done by Wells Fargo back to 2022 says that when Congress forced down the cost of processing Debit transactions the end users did not see a real savings. Questions asked related to lower processing fees means a smaller revenue stream leading financials/banks to curb or eliminate points, cash back and the like. They could well vaporize. Do remember back to a time where a credit card only allowed payment over time and there were no rewards with high interest rates. The story hinted at this. Posters one and all ... keep your ear to the rail as this could be a subject we may need to weigh in on with our Congressional Leaders (using this phrase very loosely).
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Credit/Debit Processing Networks

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Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:12 pm
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Dinosaur
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Last edited by Dinosaur on Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aw, Congress is again looking at merchants having multiple access to various financial networks so they can pick the one that is most favorable to them.

The story goes it would drive the cost per transaction down and the merchant MAY pass the savings on to the end users.

A study that was done by Wells Fargo back to 2022 says that when Congress forced down the cost of processing Debit transactions the end users did not see a real savings.

Questions asked related to lower processing fees means a smaller revenue stream leading financials/banks to curb or eliminate points, cash back and the like. They could well vaporize.

Do remember back to a time where a credit card only allowed payment over time and there were no rewards with high interest rates. The story hinted at this.

Posters one and all ... keep your ear to the rail as this could be a subject we may need to weigh in on with our Congressional Leaders (using this phrase very loosely).
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

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Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm
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There's no way that the banks will let this happen. They will do more lobbying than we could ever possibly do, both to protect their processing revenue streams, and to not lose a bunch of customers with excellent credit who go for the rewards cards. This is especially true for Discover and Capital One with their asset-backed securities models where the less risky customers make it possible for them to target the more risky (and more lucrative) subprime customers.

It it does happen though, it will sure simplify my wallet...
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

3 of 25
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Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:16 pm
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ToxikPH
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Saeren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm There's no way that the banks will let this happen. They will do more lobbying than we could ever possibly do, both to protect their processing revenue streams, and to not lose a bunch of customers with excellent credit who go for the rewards cards. This is especially true for Discover and Capital One with their asset-backed securities models where the less risky customers make it possible for them to target the more risky (and more lucrative) subprime customers. It it does happen though, it will sure simplify my wallet...
yeah right down to a debit card.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

4 of 25
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Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:34 pm
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ToxikPH wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:16 pm
Saeren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm There's no way that the banks will let this happen. They will do more lobbying than we could ever possibly do, both to protect their processing revenue streams, and to not lose a bunch of customers with excellent credit who go for the rewards cards. This is especially true for Discover and Capital One with their asset-backed securities models where the less risky customers make it possible for them to target the more risky (and more lucrative) subprime customers. It it does happen though, it will sure simplify my wallet...
yeah right down to a debit card.
Truth be told, there are already 1% debit cards, so I can't see them nerfing credit card rewards to 0%, they'll definitely axe the higher earning ones though. There are still security benefits and the float benefit with credit cards to take into account so I wouldn't go back to debit.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

5 of 25
A year ago
Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:20 pm
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ToxikPH
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Saeren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:34 pm
ToxikPH wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:16 pm
Saeren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm There's no way that the banks will let this happen. They will do more lobbying than we could ever possibly do, both to protect their processing revenue streams, and to not lose a bunch of customers with excellent credit who go for the rewards cards. This is especially true for Discover and Capital One with their asset-backed securities models where the less risky customers make it possible for them to target the more risky (and more lucrative) subprime customers. It it does happen though, it will sure simplify my wallet...
yeah right down to a debit card.
Truth be told, there are already 1% debit cards, so I can't see them nerfing credit card rewards to 0%, they'll definitely axe the higher earning ones though. There are still security benefits and the float benefit with credit cards to take into account so I wouldn't go back to debit.
The 1.5% would be the top of the line lmao
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

6 of 25
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Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:16 am
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There's a good overview of this situation at The Points Guy: https://thepointsguy.com/news/credit-ca ... ition-act/ Link to a press release about reintroducing the Credit Card Competition Act. (Bipartisan support with members listed there.) This is interesting: "Not surprisingly, on Sept. 14, 2022, more than 1,700 merchants — including Target and Walmart — sent a letter to Congress in support of the bill." Look, we all know who pays for our cashback rewards: people that pay in cash, which are generally from the lower-income bracket - "poor people". It's not like most of us are happy about that or necessarily like it, but it is what it is. Yes, many businesses offer a discount for cash, but not enough to drain a significant amount of what's available for card issuers to use for our rewards. This bill would definitely drain that pool. Savings are never passed on to consumers anyway - line must always go up somehow!
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

7 of 25
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Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:36 pm
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Saeren
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Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:16 am Savings are never passed on to consumers anyway - line must always go up somehow!
Yup. They'll keep everything the same and just pocket the difference anyway. What will go away are surcharges for using credit cards aka cash discounts, something that isn't common around here at all but could be nice for people in areas like CA and NY that do it frequently... This would pretty much kill the credit card business as we know it.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

8 of 25
A year ago
Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 pm
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Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:36 pm
Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:16 am Savings are never passed on to consumers anyway - line must always go up somehow!
Yup. They'll keep everything the same and just pocket the difference anyway. What will go away are surcharges for using credit cards aka cash discounts, something that isn't common around here at all but could be nice for people in areas like CA and NY that do it frequently... This would pretty much kill the credit card business as we know it.
In my part of NC it's becoming more common to charge more for CC usage, but it's not the majority yet.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

9 of 25
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Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:11 pm
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EvenBetterThanTheRealThing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 pm In my part of NC it's becoming more common to charge more for CC usage, but it's not the majority yet.
How much more, generally speaking? I'm used to seeing a blanket 3% for either cash discount or credit surcharge, but it's rare and only at family/privately owned shops.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

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Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:52 pm
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Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:11 pm
EvenBetterThanTheRealThing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 pm In my part of NC it's becoming more common to charge more for CC usage, but it's not the majority yet.
How much more, generally speaking? I'm used to seeing a blanket 3% for either cash discount or credit surcharge, but it's rare and only at family/privately owned shops.
I'd estimate 25-30% of the gas stations do, but a lower percentage of restaurants and other shops. We have pretty significant gas price differences within a 10-15mile radius as well. I can't speak for other metro areas, but it's not unheard of to see a 30-40¢ difference in the price per gallon on a somewhat regular basis. One specific corridor to the Northwest (beginning in the city lmits and extending a couple miles past) and a couple of corridors to the South of the city center (also both in and outside the city limits) have the lowest prices consistently. Even Sam's Club is never one of the cheapest because no station nearby it is relatively inexpensive.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

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Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:06 am
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EvenBetterThanTheRealThing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 pm
Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:36 pm
Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:16 am Savings are never passed on to consumers anyway - line must always go up somehow!
Yup. They'll keep everything the same and just pocket the difference anyway. What will go away are surcharges for using credit cards aka cash discounts, something that isn't common around here at all but could be nice for people in areas like CA and NY that do it frequently... This would pretty much kill the credit card business as we know it.
In my part of NC it's becoming more common to charge more for CC usage, but it's not the majority yet.
I haven't had it happen a single time here yet, thankfully, because when it does, I'll go off like a rocket about how they agreed to it in their merchant agreement and it's bs that they want to be able to take cards and get the extra business but charge us extra to pay for it. It's the cost of doing business and I'll walk out of any place that tries that crap.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

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Thu Jul 27, 2023 12:08 am
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Saeren
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EvenBetterThanTheRealThing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:52 pm
Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:11 pm
EvenBetterThanTheRealThing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 pm In my part of NC it's becoming more common to charge more for CC usage, but it's not the majority yet.
How much more, generally speaking? I'm used to seeing a blanket 3% for either cash discount or credit surcharge, but it's rare and only at family/privately owned shops.
I'd estimate 25-30% of the gas stations do, but a lower percentage of restaurants and other shops. We have pretty significant gas price differences within a 10-15mile radius as well. I can't speak for other metro areas, but it's not unheard of to see a 30-40¢ difference in the price per gallon on a somewhat regular basis. One specific corridor to the Northwest (beginning in the city lmits and extending a couple miles past) and a couple of corridors to the South of the city center (also both in and outside the city limits) have the lowest prices consistently. Even Sam's Club is never one of the cheapest because no station nearby it is relatively inexpensive.
I think that's pretty normal with the gas station prices. You have to check apps like Gas Buddy to get the best deal (there was a website that I used to use but I don't remember what it was - Google search seems to suggest Gas Buddy took over) and it's always some random gas station in BFE so you have to do the math on whether it costs you more than it saves to get there.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

13 of 25
A year ago
Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:36 am
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Post was altered.
Last edited by Dinosaur on Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EvenBetterThanTheRealThing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:29 pm
Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:36 pm
Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:16 am Savings are never passed on to consumers anyway - line must always go up somehow!
Yup. They'll keep everything the same and just pocket the difference anyway. What will go away are surcharges for using credit cards aka cash discounts, something that isn't common around here at all but could be nice for people in areas like CA and NY that do it frequently... This would pretty much kill the credit card business as we know it.
In my part of NC it's becoming more common to charge more for CC usage, but it's not the majority yet.
In my part of the upper Midwest, they are tacking on 3.99% to the price for credit cards. Several communities have jumped on the band wagon. Stopped into the local Ford Dealer and asked him what gives, and he said that it saved him $100K a year. Then I posed a question as your Baby Boomer clients are gone how do you suppose this action will attract Mill's, Z's and the younger generations where he got snarky and hasn't talked to me since. In my area it is a smattering of eateries, service providers, car dealers and I could go on. It strikes me the local chamber of commerce might be involved as well as small business owners.
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

14 of 25
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Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:41 am
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Dinosaur
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Saeren wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm There's no way that the banks will let this happen. They will do more lobbying than we could ever possibly do, both to protect their processing revenue streams, and to not lose a bunch of customers with excellent credit who go for the rewards cards. This is especially true for Discover and Capital One with their asset-backed securities models where the less risky customers make it possible for them to target the more risky (and more lucrative) subprime customers. It it does happen though, it will sure simplify my wallet...
In today's environment of a rudderless ship (no high-level leadership in the elected ranks), I would not become complacent and blow this issue off. It is more than apparent our elected representatives only view their point of view and our input is a gloss over. As a group we certainly know a lot of people and may find it is something that would call for potential action?
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

15 of 25
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Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:44 am
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Dinosaur
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Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:16 am There's a good overview of this situation at The Points Guy: https://thepointsguy.com/news/credit-ca ... ition-act/ Link to a press release about reintroducing the Credit Card Competition Act. (Bipartisan support with members listed there.) This is interesting: "Not surprisingly, on Sept. 14, 2022, more than 1,700 merchants — including Target and Walmart — sent a letter to Congress in support of the bill." Look, we all know who pays for our cashback rewards: people that pay in cash, which are generally from the lower-income bracket - "poor people". It's not like most of us are happy about that or necessarily like it, but it is what it is. Yes, many businesses offer a discount for cash, but not enough to drain a significant amount of what's available for card issuers to use for our rewards. This bill would definitely drain that pool. Savings are never passed on to consumers anyway - line must always go up somehow!
Common Cassie! It is a big brotherhood out in the world where everyone wants to help someone? Ok ... so I lied!
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Re: Credit/Debit Processing Networks

16 of 25
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Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:52 pm
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Cassie
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Dinosaur wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:44 am Common Cassie! It is a big brotherhood out in the world where everyone wants to help someone? Ok ... so I lied!
My immediate reaction to this bill was "Ok, now let's find out how many of these members have 'friends' in startups looking to compete with Mastercard and Visa."
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