Trying to isolate effect of CFA

11 months ago

Sat Sep 30, 2023 10:17 pm

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 12 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:51 pm Nov 2021 I accidentally “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account. No Beefy ... I accidently did the same thing with a Wells Fargo Card that I did not know was a CFA account. Scores took a hit similar to yours and followed me. Truth, I did not know anything about CFA until reading it in a Forum. No clue. Unfortunately, the damage was done! Who would have guessed Wells Fargo had such credit cards? I sure had no idea. Found no way to rid myself of the reporting ... it just had to follow the route of affecting scoring over time. NOW I pay close attention and when in doubt ... step away. Find CSRs don't even know if some of their products are such for reporting. Oh, did it a second time when I opened a One Main Credit Card (used to be part of the Citi Group) and found the card a CFA. Like I said, no idea

11 months ago

Sun Oct 01, 2023 4:02 am

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Dinosaur wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 10:17 pm
Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:51 pm Nov 2021 I accidentally “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account. No Beefy ... I accidently did the same thing with a Wells Fargo Card that I did not know was a CFA account. Scores took a hit similar to yours and followed me. Truth, I did not know anything about CFA until reading it in a Forum. No clue. Unfortunately, the damage was done! Who would have guessed Wells Fargo had such credit cards? I sure had no idea. Found no way to rid myself of the reporting ... it just had to follow the route of affecting scoring over time. NOW I pay close attention and when in doubt ... step away. Find CSRs don't even know if some of their products are such for reporting. Oh, did it a second time when I opened a One Main Credit Card (used to be part of the Citi Group) and found the card a CFA. Like I said, no idea
Had no idea credit cards could code as CFAs thought it was a loan product only code. Are you sure you didn’t have a buy now pay later or similar loan from a merchant rather around the same time?

11 months ago

Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:40 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:51 pm If you count the inquiry as a 5ish point loss/gain that means 14+5-6 means the CFA is suppressing my ex score 19-20 points. This would be on a young/thick/new revolver scorecard unless a CFA forces scorecard reassignment. At which point my musings are meaningless.

Around -20 points seems reasonable. It might be less with the switch to the no-new-revolver scorecard. Your credit file was less than 3 years old with 4 or more tradelines on it? (Thin/Thick switch at 4 followed by Young/Mature at 3y0m. This is more for people coming from search for the first time.) That CFA hit could be even more on the lower 4 thin scorecards.

11 months ago

Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:12 am

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 12 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Beefy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 4:02 am
Dinosaur wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 10:17 pm
Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:51 pm Nov 2021 I accidentally “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account. No Beefy ... I accidently did the same thing with a Wells Fargo Card that I did not know was a CFA account. Scores took a hit similar to yours and followed me. Truth, I did not know anything about CFA until reading it in a Forum. No clue. Unfortunately, the damage was done! Who would have guessed Wells Fargo had such credit cards? I sure had no idea. Found no way to rid myself of the reporting ... it just had to follow the route of affecting scoring over time. NOW I pay close attention and when in doubt ... step away. Find CSRs don't even know if some of their products are such for reporting. Oh, did it a second time when I opened a One Main Credit Card (used to be part of the Citi Group) and found the card a CFA. Like I said, no idea
Had no idea credit cards could code as CFAs thought it was a loan product only code. Are you sure you didn’t have a buy now pay later or similar loan from a merchant rather around the same time?
No. Both were credit cards that came off a different part of Wells Fargo $2500 CL and Citi/One Main $____?. Do not believe after all the financial shuffling the two have such cards today. Sure was a shock!

TU8 799/EX8 786/EQ8 805 EQ5 770/EX2 757 8/18/2023

11 months ago

Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:41 pm

Saeren

Rebel Administrator

Recent HP or new account.

Level0 Last INQFriday, August 23, 2024 Gardening For15 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onSaturday, August 23, 2025 INQ 1yr in11 months, 15 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onSunday, August 23, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 11 months, 15 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal6 months Goal DateSunday, February 23, 2025 Goal In5 months, 15 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Credit card accounts by definition cannot be CFAs because they're revolving accounts not meant for a one time high risk loan. Now seeing One Main listed there, that could be your CFA.

I have a CFA that I got from taking a loan from Best Egg.

11 months ago

Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:14 pm

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 12 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Saeren wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:41 pm Credit card accounts by definition cannot be CFAs because they're revolving accounts not meant for a one time high risk loan. Now seeing One Main listed there, that could be your CFA. I have a CFA that I got from taking a loan from Best Egg.

It was a CFA Credit Card. Now it is possible Wells Fargo actually ran it as a high-risk loan and allowed a card on the account. It was back in a time when I had trouble getting regular credit. Also, do not believe Wells Fargo does such a thing today as I remember in one of their fines, they had to distance themselves from their high risk whatever it was? We are talking back many years, and the account was not part of their advertised ones I had to go into a store front much like One Main and apply. Citi sold One Main which really was for high risk, and I knew that but did not know anything about CFA. It took reading on the MF Forum to even know what was going on. I had never heard of CFA. Do know that over time both financial loans dropped off my scoring and they went up

11 months ago

Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:31 pm

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 22 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in8 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 22 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 22 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago

I find the whole CFA scoring penalty thing very troubling. I think it’s unfair to consumers that some credit products are coded in a way that causes their scores to be hurt so much, but they often have no way of knowing this will happen. Even among the members of this site and MF — probably some of the most educated consumers of credit — uncertainty dominates. The existence of this thread shows that. Ordinary consumers don’t stand a chance of knowing how to avoid this scoring hit. That’s crazy and it shouldn’t be legal.

I am saddled with a CFA penalty on Equifax. I plan to send them a dispute letter to try to get them to either remove it or tell me in writing what’s causing it. I don’t know if my enthusiasm for this issue will hold up long enough for me to do this, but I think it would be perfectly appropriate to ask the CFPB to step in and end this unfair practice.

11 months ago

Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:03 am

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

On the 14th my 3rd TU inquiry fell off so TU and EX are now both 2 inquiries and the spread is 19 points.

Now the question is what part of the algorithm does a CFA fall under because as reported people have had CFA accounts and reported having 850 scores.

The second question being does more than 1 CFA give the same or a different penalty?

11 months ago

Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:35 am

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 12 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Beefy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:03 am On the 14th my 3rd TU inquiry fell off so TU and EX are now both 2 inquiries and the spread is 19 points. Now the question is what part of the algorithm does a CFA fall under because as reported people have had CFA accounts and reported having 850 scores. The second question being does more than 1 CFA give the same or a different penalty?

Interesting as I sure could not say that!

11 months ago

Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:37 am

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 12 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Justaguy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:31 pm I find the whole CFA scoring penalty thing very troubling. I think it’s unfair to consumers that some credit products are coded in a way that causes their scores to be hurt so much, but they often have no way of knowing this will happen. Even among the members of this site and MF — probably some of the most educated consumers of credit — uncertainty dominates. The existence of this thread shows that. Ordinary consumers don’t stand a chance of knowing how to avoid this scoring hit. That’s crazy and it shouldn’t be legal. I am saddled with a CFA penalty on Equifax. I plan to send them a dispute letter to try to get them to either remove it or tell me in writing what’s causing it. I don’t know if my enthusiasm for this issue will hold up long enough for me to do this, but I think it would be perfectly appropriate to ask the CFPB to step in and end this unfair practice.

Adding, I for one knew nothing about CFA or what loans of debt-oriented products carried a CFA relationship! How do we know?

11 months ago

Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:44 pm

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Dinosaur wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:37 am
Justaguy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:31 pm I find the whole CFA scoring penalty thing very troubling. I think it’s unfair to consumers that some credit products are coded in a way that causes their scores to be hurt so much, but they often have no way of knowing this will happen. Even among the members of this site and MF — probably some of the most educated consumers of credit — uncertainty dominates. The existence of this thread shows that. Ordinary consumers don’t stand a chance of knowing how to avoid this scoring hit. That’s crazy and it shouldn’t be legal. I am saddled with a CFA penalty on Equifax. I plan to send them a dispute letter to try to get them to either remove it or tell me in writing what’s causing it. I don’t know if my enthusiasm for this issue will hold up long enough for me to do this, but I think it would be perfectly appropriate to ask the CFPB to step in and end this unfair practice.
Adding, I for one knew nothing about CFA or what loans of debt-oriented products carried a CFA relationship! How do we know?

We don’t that is the issue, the only way we have to check is best described as FAFO we know certain lenders like affirm but we have no real way to determine until after the penalty hits, seemingly different branches of the same bank can also code differently. @Cassie the auto logout every 20 some seconds is happening again

11 months ago

Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:25 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes ago

I agree that CFAs suck and that it's even worse that they still adversely impact a file even when the account is closed. Having them still cause harm for another 10 years following closure is rough to say the least.

I had not heard of data points of 850 being attained with a CFA present, but that's good to know. With around 10-15 points of buffer built into my 850s, I don't think I'd still be able to boast 850s with a CFA since they seem to impact around 15-20 points from most estimates I've seen, although little is concrete.

8 months ago

Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:25 pm

Dinosaur

Seasoned RebelDinosaur

Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 12 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:51 pm Nov 2021 I accidentally “didn’t know better” opened a CFA account. The account only reports to Experian and only Experian has the CFA reason statement.

Saw something on another site today ... it seems One Main is offering some form of a credit card. Gads, you get CFA at no extra charge

For the faint of heart the "Brightway MasterCard" from One Main with credit lines up to $3000 and it is either with or without and AF. Also, it is only for those INVITED to apply and join the inner circle.

Just enough for me to write mother about it (note mother is in heaven).

8 months ago

Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Beefy

Seasoned Rebel

Level3 Last INQTuesday, May 28, 2024 Gardening For3 months, 10 days, 20 hours, and 48 minutes Next Level in20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onWednesday, May 28, 2025 INQ 1yr in8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes INQ 2yr onThursday, May 28, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes Goal12 months Goal DateWednesday, May 28, 2025 Goal In8 months, 20 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes

So are scorecard reassignment from young to mature and TU/EX now having 1 HP each the difference is 9 points so maybe the effect of a CFA is magnified on young scorecards.