While this topic has been around awhile, the Star Tribune Newspaper in the greater Minneapolis-St Paul area of Minnesota (population of 4,000,000) had a sobering story today Thursday October 12, 2023, on the fate of credit cards and rewards. It appears that the folks that always listen to us need to become acquainted with cash, checks and other methods of payment like all of us to understand what it may really mean (yeah forgot, they earn $175,000 a year poverty level). :angry-boxing: That is to say, the article felt credit card fees were more than adding 3.9% to your bill for using credit. That merchants do not want to subsidize the credit user at all (no cards). Ideas of discount for cash are ever around and even Debit Cards use due to lower fees which we never saw anything on as consumers. Tried not to laugh at comments how the two or more processing networks would be required and would help consumers as we know the cap on Debit Card fees did NOT come back to us as consumers. It just enhanced the business owners bottom line. Around here and other Forums there are doubters about the survival of credit rewards and even credit card uses (no benefits) as business owners seem to think it will not shrink spending or cause them problems of loss from cash or checks. Know this has been vented well before but it seems the US Congress and related Agencies are now turning a tuned in ear and listening. :lol: Certainly, are many viewpoints to this question and I do believe a significant change in credit cards certainly has the potential to bite businesses due to less spending. :violin: Probably I can live with it as I keep money in a can buried in the back lot and in the mattress. Safe for sure. :very-mad:
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Fire Credit Card Fees

1 of 10
11 months ago
Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:18 pm
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Dinosaur
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While this topic has been around awhile, the Star Tribune Newspaper in the greater Minneapolis-St Paul area of Minnesota (population of 4,000,000) had a sobering story today Thursday October 12, 2023, on the fate of credit cards and rewards. It appears that the folks that always listen to us need to become acquainted with cash, checks and other methods of payment like all of us to understand what it may really mean (yeah forgot, they earn $175,000 a year poverty level). :angry-boxing: That is to say, the article felt credit card fees were more than adding 3.9% to your bill for using credit. That merchants do not want to subsidize the credit user at all (no cards). Ideas of discount for cash are ever around and even Debit Cards use due to lower fees which we never saw anything on as consumers. Tried not to laugh at comments how the two or more processing networks would be required and would help consumers as we know the cap on Debit Card fees did NOT come back to us as consumers. It just enhanced the business owners bottom line. Around here and other Forums there are doubters about the survival of credit rewards and even credit card uses (no benefits) as business owners seem to think it will not shrink spending or cause them problems of loss from cash or checks. Know this has been vented well before but it seems the US Congress and related Agencies are now turning a tuned in ear and listening. :lol: Certainly, are many viewpoints to this question and I do believe a significant change in credit cards certainly has the potential to bite businesses due to less spending. :violin: Probably I can live with it as I keep money in a can buried in the back lot and in the mattress. Safe for sure. :very-mad:
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Re: Credit Card Fees

2 of 10
11 months ago
Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:44 pm
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ToxikPH
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honestly if credit card rewards went away it'd be a good and bad thing for me.

good:
i'd spend only what i have which is really what i should be doing now but with tuition and dental that has been hard. i think the physicality of cash as well would help me spend less (i really love cash and the physicality but credit rewards push me to that)

bad:
i'd basically lose all ability to travel. the majority of my trips have been fully paid or subsidized with travel rewards and losing out on these through credit cards would basically keep me stuck in colorado.

obviously id like to keep credit cards the way they currently are but the alternative wont completely kill me.
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Re: Credit Card Fees

3 of 10
11 months ago
Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:11 pm
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Cassie
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TransUnion has a current report (Sep/Oct 2023) showing Gen Z moving away from Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) loans to traditional credit cards. (New credit apps are way up.) If you look back 2 years ago, you'll find many articles about how Gen Z was rejecting credit cards altogether.

Use of BNPL is still high - around a third of Gen Z - but generally the group as a whole is more wary of them.

One thing is certain: nothing ever gets 'passed back to the consumer'. Revenue and/or profit chart line must go up - always. This is the fundamental problem that cannot be fixed by anyone, with this current system in place.

No one in the media or politics ever asks why a company can't just take the hit on the profit margin and keep prices the same. It's basically blasphemy.

EDIT TO ADD (ETA): As of October 1st, my natural gas company, Consumers Energy, has discontinued autopay with a credit/debit card and now charges $2.99 for every payment by credit/debit card. They want to pull only from checking or savings for autopay.
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Re: Credit Card Fees

4 of 10
11 months ago
Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:57 am
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Saeren
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It is kind of amusing that they envision this cashless society where every transaction can be traced but they're going to disincentivize the use of cards.

Honestly if credit card fees are set to go down they should be taking the step to ban credit card surcharges and cash discounts...
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Re: Credit Card Fees

5 of 10
11 months ago
Fri Oct 13, 2023 3:30 am
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Dinosaur
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Level4 Last INQMonday, April 8, 2024 Gardening For4 months, 30 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes Next Level in3 hours and 32 minutes on September 8th INQ 1yr onTuesday, April 8, 2025 INQ 1yr in7 months, 3 hours, and 32 minutes INQ 2yr onWednesday, April 8, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 32 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateWednesday, April 8, 2026 Goal In1 year, 7 months, 3 hours, and 32 minutes
Cassie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:11 pm TransUnion has a current report (Sep/Oct 2023) showing Gen Z moving away from Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) loans to traditional credit cards. (New credit apps are way up.) If you look back 2 years ago, you'll find many articles about how Gen Z was rejecting credit cards altogether. Use of BNPL is still high - around a third of Gen Z - but generally the group as a whole is more wary of them. One thing is certain: nothing ever gets 'passed back to the consumer'. Revenue and/or profit chart line must go up - always. This is the fundamental problem that cannot be fixed by anyone, with this current system in place. No one in the media or politics ever asks why a company can't just take the hit on the profit margin and keep prices the same. It's basically blasphemy. EDIT TO ADD (ETA): As of October 1st, my natural gas company, Consumers Energy, has discontinued autopay with a credit/debit card and now charges $2.99 for every payment by credit/debit card. They want to pull only from checking or savings for autopay.
Very interesting! My telephone/internet provider, natural gas provider and many city utilities around where I live all are all charging a fee for the use of credit cards generally ranging around $3.95 per transaction or no cost for checks or ACH/EFT. Gets better, the businesses in my area got together through work of the local chambers of commerce and jointly agreed to impose a 3.99% credit card fee. My Ford Dealer said getting people to cash or check saves them $100,000 a year. Unreal ... don't know about other areas but the cashless society went out the window here. :cry:
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Re: Credit Card Fees

6 of 10
11 months ago
Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:21 am
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ptatohed
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My Water charges no fee for credit card (yet you have to log in and manually pay - auto pay can only be set to a bank account). Gas and Electric each allow CCs but charge a 'small' (less than $2 fixed) fee to do so (but, again, CCs can't be used for auto pay). It typically pays out to log in and use at least my 3% AOD to pay, even after the fixed fee. But I really do prefer auto pay (from my checking), for convenience, and not have to log in and manually pay each month. The strong exception is when my Shop Your Way card offers 10% back, up to $500 spend per month, on utilities for 3 months at a time - then, you bet I am logging in every month and manually paying - even if I have to over-pay to reach $500 spend. :D I've been getting $50 / mo for the last 3 mo's by using my SYW card to pay for utilities. I really need to look into a 5% utility card. But, then again, I'd have to log in manually each month to pay the bills. :icon-neutral:
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Re: Credit Card Fees

7 of 10
11 months ago
Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:21 pm
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Justaguy
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ptatohed wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:21 am My Water charges no fee for credit card (yet you have to log in and manually pay - auto pay can only be set to a bank account). Gas and Electric each allow CCs but charge a 'small' (less than $2 fixed) fee to do so (but, again, CCs can't be used for auto pay). It typically pays out to log in and use at least my 3% AOD to pay, even after the fixed fee. But I really do prefer auto pay (from my checking), for convenience, and not have to log in and manually pay each month. The strong exception is when my Shop Your Way card offers 10% back, up to $500 spend per month, on utilities for 3 months at a time - then, you bet I am logging in every month and manually paying - even if I have to over-pay to reach $500 spend. :D I've been getting $50 / mo for the last 3 mo's by using my SYW card to pay for utilities. I really need to look into a 5% utility card. But, then again, I'd have to log in manually each month to pay the bills. :icon-neutral:
My solution to a similar problem is PayPal Bill Pay, drawing on US Bank Cash+. It isn’t quite as convenient as automatic payments, but the PayPal app is pretty slick and it only takes me a few seconds to manually push a payment to each utility provider each month. For 5% cashback and zero fees, I think it’s worth it. On the larger topic of the thread, I’m something of a heretic. I feel bad about the current CC world we live in. True, a few of us have the knowledge and wherewithal to play the credit card game profitably. Yay for us! But we are vastly outnumbered by people who pay a steep price for their use of credit cards. Overall, the harm it does to them is much, much larger then the good our rewards cards do for us. If there were a magic regulatory wand that could wipe all that away, perhaps that would be a net positive for society. (Or maybe not. If lending to consumers at interest rates that account for risk and profit were banned, there would be far less consumption. Reasonable people can disagree on whether that would be good or bad, overall.) But I agree with the view that simply capping CC interchange fees wouldn’t help consumers much. Sure, it would reduce operating expenses for businesses large and small, but would they reduce prices? Theory says yes but experience says no. Every company I’ve ever worked at would celebrate the extra profits in year 1 and maybe, just maybe slow down the next year’s price increases, but then carry on as normal after that. I guess one could say that’s a lowering of prices, but it’s certainly not the magic wand I dream of. There probably isn’t one.
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Re: Credit Card Fees

8 of 10
11 months ago
Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:25 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
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Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 32 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes ago
Justaguy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:21 pm On the larger topic of the thread, I’m something of a heretic. I feel bad about the current CC world we live in. True, a few of us have the knowledge and wherewithal to play the credit card game profitably. Yay for us! But we are vastly outnumbered by people who pay a steep price for their use of credit cards. Overall, the harm it does to them is much, much larger then the good our rewards cards do for us. If there were a magic regulatory wand that could wipe all that away, perhaps that would be a net positive for society. (Or maybe not. If lending to consumers at interest rates that account for risk and profit were banned, there would be far less consumption. Reasonable people can disagree on whether that would be good or bad, overall.)
Right there with you on that! This general sentiment/empathy makes me think of how I feel when grocery shopping lately. "These prices are ridiculous. I can easily afford it, but who cares about that - people are really suffering from this."
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Re: Credit Card Fees

9 of 10
10 months ago
Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:50 pm
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tlp123
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My formerly Sprint-now-T-Mobile acct just killed my $15 Auto Pay discount unless I change from CC to debit card.

I quit using my ATM/debit card for mostly anything other than ATM since my debit card was hacked (probably gas station pump card skimmer) back in 2009.
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Re: Credit Card Fees

10 of 10
10 months ago
Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:58 am
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
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Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 32 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 28 minutes ago
tlp123 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:50 pm My formerly Sprint-now-T-Mobile acct just killed my $15 Auto Pay discount unless I change from CC to debit card. I quit using my ATM/debit card for mostly anything other than ATM since my debit card was hacked (probably gas station pump card skimmer) back in 2009.
Welcome, @tlp123 ! I use my debit card the same way now. It's just too bad out there in IT security to store a debit card anywhere online, and it surely doesn't matter how big the company is or what their market value might be.
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