Apple ends partnership with Goldman Sachs

It has been rumored for quite a while now but it has finally happened. They will unwind over the next 12-15 months, including the savings account. https://www.reuters.com/technology/appl ... %20Tuesday. I will be curious to see who picks up the Apple Card. Goldman was willing to approve a lot more riskier profiles than most issuers would.

Wonder how much interest rates played into this. With the recent fintech failures it's clear the card landscape is a little hard to be in right now but the "failure" of the Apple Card really is interesting. I know GS isn't a consumer style bank so of course they would struggle a bit with the card and savings account but I would think they'd have better luck than a fintech. Hopefully the card gets picked up by another bank that can handle it. I know it was rumored that Apple was going to start doing their own banking but there's no way they are going to do that in the next 12-18 months. Going to be interesting to follow this.

ToxikPH wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:09 pm Wonder how much interest rates played into this. With the recent fintech failures it's clear the card landscape is a little hard to be in right now but the "failure" of the Apple Card really is interesting. I know GS isn't a consumer style bank so of course they would struggle a bit with the card and savings account but I would think they'd have better luck than a fintech. Hopefully the card gets picked up by another bank that can handle it. I know it was rumored that Apple was going to start doing their own banking but there's no way they are going to do that in the next 12-18 months. Going to be interesting to follow this.

Knowing how Apple plays 4D chess they honestly probably started putting in all the work to do their own banking before the launched the card and they just put all the risk on Goldman. Synchrony is the only one that approves the same credit profiles that Goldman was and they had interest in the card from the start, bidding against Goldman for it, so they're a likely place for the card to land. AMEX is unlikely with the limited acceptance.

Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:05 am It has been rumored for quite a while now but it has finally happened. They will unwind over the next 12-15 months, including the savings account. https://www.reuters.com/technology/appl ... %20Tuesday. I will be curious to see who picks up the Apple Card. Goldman was willing to approve a lot more riskier profiles than most issuers would.

Like the part where Apple rolls out a High Yield Savings Account that pays more than Goldman. Hmm ... nice partner, stabs us in the back

Dinosaur wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:42 pm

Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:05 am It has been rumored for quite a while now but it has finally happened. They will unwind over the next 12-15 months, including the savings account. https://www.reuters.com/technology/appl ... %20Tuesday. I will be curious to see who picks up the Apple Card. Goldman was willing to approve a lot more riskier profiles than most issuers would.

Like the part where Apple rolls out a High Yield Savings Account that pays more than Goldman. Hmm ... nice partner, stabs us in the back

The HYSA was with Goldman. They announced it in April and now they're announcing a split in November after announcing 10 BILLION in deposits in August. Wild.

Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:54 pm

ToxikPH wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:09 pm Wonder how much interest rates played into this. With the recent fintech failures it's clear the card landscape is a little hard to be in right now but the "failure" of the Apple Card really is interesting. I know GS isn't a consumer style bank so of course they would struggle a bit with the card and savings account but I would think they'd have better luck than a fintech. Hopefully the card gets picked up by another bank that can handle it. I know it was rumored that Apple was going to start doing their own banking but there's no way they are going to do that in the next 12-18 months. Going to be interesting to follow this.

Knowing how Apple plays 4D chess they honestly probably started putting in all the work to do their own banking before the launched the card and they just put all the risk on Goldman. Synchrony is the only one that approves the same credit profiles that Goldman was and they had interest in the card from the start, bidding against Goldman for it, so they're a likely place for the card to land. AMEX is unlikely with the limited acceptance.

I said 3 years ago Apple Card and the push for Apple Pay was merely a way for apple to wrap up its users even tighter. They got everyone to pay to roll out tap to pay at every register, they have more free capital than any corporation on earth, why wouldn’t they eventually make it a closed loop with their own deposit accounts, payment processing, and hell why not a payment network. Apple is in a position right now to roll out a nation wide network cheaper faster more profitable, with a wider user base than anyone else.

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:57 am

Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:54 pm

ToxikPH wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:09 pm Wonder how much interest rates played into this. With the recent fintech failures it's clear the card landscape is a little hard to be in right now but the "failure" of the Apple Card really is interesting. I know GS isn't a consumer style bank so of course they would struggle a bit with the card and savings account but I would think they'd have better luck than a fintech. Hopefully the card gets picked up by another bank that can handle it. I know it was rumored that Apple was going to start doing their own banking but there's no way they are going to do that in the next 12-18 months. Going to be interesting to follow this.

Knowing how Apple plays 4D chess they honestly probably started putting in all the work to do their own banking before the launched the card and they just put all the risk on Goldman. Synchrony is the only one that approves the same credit profiles that Goldman was and they had interest in the card from the start, bidding against Goldman for it, so they're a likely place for the card to land. AMEX is unlikely with the limited acceptance.

I said 3 years ago Apple Card and the push for Apple Pay was merely a way for apple to wrap up its users even tighter. They got everyone to pay to roll out tap to pay at every register, they have more free capital than any corporation on earth, why wouldn’t they eventually make it a closed loop with their own deposit accounts, payment processing, and hell why not a payment network. Apple is in a position right now to roll out a nation wide network cheaper faster more profitable, with a wider user base than anyone else.

I would fully support Apple rolling out a competing network as it would force price competition without this regulatory mess that's being proposed right now. I'm also thankful for the Apple Pay push because it means I hardly ever have to actually swipe a card anymore since Android Pay works the same way.

Saeren wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:45 pm

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:57 am

Saeren wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:54 pm Knowing how Apple plays 4D chess they honestly probably started putting in all the work to do their own banking before the launched the card and they just put all the risk on Goldman. Synchrony is the only one that approves the same credit profiles that Goldman was and they had interest in the card from the start, bidding against Goldman for it, so they're a likely place for the card to land. AMEX is unlikely with the limited acceptance.

I said 3 years ago Apple Card and the push for Apple Pay was merely a way for apple to wrap up its users even tighter. They got everyone to pay to roll out tap to pay at every register, they have more free capital than any corporation on earth, why wouldn’t they eventually make it a closed loop with their own deposit accounts, payment processing, and hell why not a payment network. Apple is in a position right now to roll out a nation wide network cheaper faster more profitable, with a wider user base than anyone else.

I would fully support Apple rolling out a competing network as it would force price competition without this regulatory mess that's being proposed right now. I'm also thankful for the Apple Pay push because it means I hardly ever have to actually swipe a card anymore since Android Pay works the same way.

I don’t remember the technical details but if I recall correctly Apple Pay is more secure than google/Samsung pay something about the way the token refreshes/the encryption on the handshake. I found it “ Apple Pay isn’t a payment intermediary, doesn’t track your transactions, and doesn’t store your card information on its servers. Google Pay, on the other hand, encrypts, saves, and stores your card information on its servers after you provide your card details during the initial setup process. Then, a virtual card is assigned to your device, which is the only card vendors see when you make a purchase. While this system allows Google Pay to act as a payment intermediary, it also tracks your transactions and can use them to serve you ads. ” https://www.jotform.com/blog/apple-pay- ... %20process.

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:54 pm

Saeren wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:45 pm

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:57 am I said 3 years ago Apple Card and the push for Apple Pay was merely a way for apple to wrap up its users even tighter. They got everyone to pay to roll out tap to pay at every register, they have more free capital than any corporation on earth, why wouldn’t they eventually make it a closed loop with their own deposit accounts, payment processing, and hell why not a payment network. Apple is in a position right now to roll out a nation wide network cheaper faster more profitable, with a wider user base than anyone else.

I would fully support Apple rolling out a competing network as it would force price competition without this regulatory mess that's being proposed right now. I'm also thankful for the Apple Pay push because it means I hardly ever have to actually swipe a card anymore since Android Pay works the same way.

I don’t remember the technical details but if I recall correctly Apple Pay is more secure than google/Samsung pay something about the way the token refreshes/the encryption on the handshake. I found it “ Apple Pay isn’t a payment intermediary, doesn’t track your transactions, and doesn’t store your card information on its servers. Google Pay, on the other hand, encrypts, saves, and stores your card information on its servers after you provide your card details during the initial setup process. Then, a virtual card is assigned to your device, which is the only card vendors see when you make a purchase. While this system allows Google Pay to act as a payment intermediary, it also tracks your transactions and can use them to serve you ads. ” https://www.jotform.com/blog/apple-pay- ... %20process.

Great information

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:54 pm

Saeren wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:45 pm

Beefy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:57 am I said 3 years ago Apple Card and the push for Apple Pay was merely a way for apple to wrap up its users even tighter. They got everyone to pay to roll out tap to pay at every register, they have more free capital than any corporation on earth, why wouldn’t they eventually make it a closed loop with their own deposit accounts, payment processing, and hell why not a payment network. Apple is in a position right now to roll out a nation wide network cheaper faster more profitable, with a wider user base than anyone else.

I would fully support Apple rolling out a competing network as it would force price competition without this regulatory mess that's being proposed right now. I'm also thankful for the Apple Pay push because it means I hardly ever have to actually swipe a card anymore since Android Pay works the same way.

I don’t remember the technical details but if I recall correctly Apple Pay is more secure than google/Samsung pay something about the way the token refreshes/the encryption on the handshake. I found it “ Apple Pay isn’t a payment intermediary, doesn’t track your transactions, and doesn’t store your card information on its servers. Google Pay, on the other hand, encrypts, saves, and stores your card information on its servers after you provide your card details during the initial setup process. Then, a virtual card is assigned to your device, which is the only card vendors see when you make a purchase. While this system allows Google Pay to act as a payment intermediary, it also tracks your transactions and can use them to serve you ads. ” https://www.jotform.com/blog/apple-pay- ... %20process.

I use Samsung Pay which is similar in security to Apple Pay. All three of them use unique tokens for each purchase AFAIA, it's just that Google is the only one that stores the original payment method on their servers (at least officially - I don't believe companies when they say they delete things so I fully expect that my original numbers are sitting somewhere for all three). The real big security of all three comes from the initial card being tokenized as it prevents it being used if it's exported from the device. Samsung also has the additional advantage of their Knox security platform which will invalidate all stored tokens if compromised which adds an extra layer of security that regular Google Pay doesn't have (Google's Titan security chips in the Pixels give Pixels similar security but one key difference is that you can root a Pixel without breaking your Titan chip but if you root a Samsung it permanently burns the Knox security by triggering an efuse which does have the disadvantage of permanently breaking Samsung Pay -- you can use a Galaxy Watch to regain Samsung Pay but otherwise it's gone for good).

Well it came from a very unexpected source but...

With Samsung Pay, your card information is never stored on the physical device or shared with the merchant when you shop. When you make a purchase, a digital account number along with a dynamic, transaction specific code is used to process your payment.

https://www.pnc.com/en/personal-banking ... %20payment. This is the same way that Apple describes their process.

After you authenticate your transaction, the Secure Element provides your Device Account Number and a transaction-specific dynamic security code to the store’s point of sale terminal along with additional information needed to complete the transaction.

Also, same for Google Pay.

When you make a purchase, the device account number, along with a transaction-specific dynamic security code, is used to process your transaction.

https://www.cbtky.com/online/google-pay ... h%20Google. I suspected that they all had to function largely the same since at the checkout counter, they're all compatible. At the end of the day, payments made with any of the three technologies are dramatically more secure than paying with a card. Even when you tap your card to check out, your actual card number is exchanged, making it possible to intercept. You can't intercept a tap to pay token and use it somewhere else though. The banks all actually make a second card using that virtual number and it won't be accepted for anything but device authenticated transactions.