Fico 10T - 850s with non-micromanaged balances

I just wanted to throw this out there because I've dealt with a ton of push back on reddit on the subject of [not] micromanaging balances and this has come up a lot. As most of you know, I recommend that people use credit cards as designed, 1 monthly payment after statement generation in the amount of the statement balance by the due date. I advise against balance micromanagement and always recommend focusing on the denominator of the utilization equation (growing limits) and not micromanaging the numerator. While most people eventually buy in to this approach for Fico 8, I have come across quite a few detractors that state something like "Well Fico 10T uses trended data, so that's going to be a problem with your higher statement balances."

I'm just posting here to say that's completely untrue, as I have a trio of 850s on Fico 10T currently and have done nothing but allow natural statement balances to report for 3+ years... certainly the entire length of time that 10T looks at. My lowest combined balances any given month are usually around $3k-$4k, where my highest maybe twice a year lands around $13k-$14k. Common for me may look like $3k, $7k, $12k, $4k, etc. across all cards from month to month. I'm just putting it out there that 10T takes no issue with this at all, so balance micromanagement or keeping steady statement balances doesn't seem to be problematic in the least.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:53 pm I just wanted to throw this out there because I've dealt with a ton of push back on reddit on the subject of [not] micromanaging balances and this has come up a lot. As most of you know, I recommend that people use credit cards as designed, 1 monthly payment after statement generation in the amount of the statement balance by the due date. I advise against balance micromanagement and always recommend focusing on the denominator of the utilization equation (growing limits) and not micromanaging the numerator. While most people eventually buy in to this approach for Fico 8, I have come across quite a few detractors that state something like "Well Fico 10T uses trended data, so that's going to be a problem with your higher statement balances." I'm just posting here to say that's completely untrue, as I have a trio of 850s on Fico 10T currently and have done nothing but allow natural statement balances to report for 3+ years... certainly the entire length of time that 10T looks at. My lowest combined balances any given month are usually around $3k-$4k, where my highest maybe twice a year lands around $13k-$14k. Common for me may look like $3k, $7k, $12k, $4k, etc. across all cards from month to month. I'm just putting it out there that 10T takes no issue with this at all, so balance micromanagement or keeping steady statement balances doesn't seem to be problematic in the least.

I see a lot of those comments on Reddit and may have been one of those who initially wondered about 10T (though not one of those who would have kept on about it being a problem lol). I don't fully let natural balances report yet as all 5 of my cards get some level of usage each month (even if minimal on some), but did stop micromanaging to AZEO back in September. My 10T scores have been on the rise while letting 2/5 cards report natural or near natural balances (minimum payment auto pays as a backup mess that up a bit with some lenders), but still have not reached the peak I had in March '23 even though I have a better overall credit profile than I did then (FWIW my profile is revolvers only). Mar '23 3B pull: EQ10T 720 TU10T 711 EX10T 707 3 cards reporting (4th card hadn't reported yet, just the HPs for it), $8.3k total CL reporting, AZEO w/2% on a $3k CL card reporting, <1% aggregate utilization. AoORA 1y4 m, AAoRA 1y1m AoYRA 0y6m. For inquiries 1/12 on EQ, 2/12 on TU and EX Mar '24 3B pull: EQ10T 699 TU10T 703 EX10T 701 5 cards reporting $24.1k total CL (VX CLI wasn't till after this 3B pull), 2/5 cards reporting, 14.5% on a 10K CL and 12% on a 5k CL, 8.5% aggregate utilization. AoORA 2y4m, AAoRA 1y7m, AoYRA 0y8m. For inquiries 1/12 on all 3. From my perspective I would expect better 10T scores now (all of my other scores including other 10 variants are at or within 2pts of their highest). Is there any chance that 10T has more scorecards, different aging metrics, or is harsher on dirty profile utilization (or $ thresholds for dirty) relative to other models? Just trying to better understand how this model works given that I'm expecting it to be growing in use by the time I can ever think about the possibility of a mortgage (and also just to satisfy my curiosity about the various models).

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:53 pm I just wanted to throw this out there because I've dealt with a ton of push back on reddit on the subject of [not] micromanaging balances and this has come up a lot. As most of you know, I recommend that people use credit cards as designed, 1 monthly payment after statement generation in the amount of the statement balance by the due date. I advise against balance micromanagement and always recommend focusing on the denominator of the utilization equation (growing limits) and not micromanaging the numerator. While most people eventually buy in to this approach for Fico 8, I have come across quite a few detractors that state something like "Well Fico 10T uses trended data, so that's going to be a problem with your higher statement balances." I'm just posting here to say that's completely untrue, as I have a trio of 850s on Fico 10T currently and have done nothing but allow natural statement balances to report for 3+ years... certainly the entire length of time that 10T looks at. My lowest combined balances any given month are usually around $3k-$4k, where my highest maybe twice a year lands around $13k-$14k. Common for me may look like $3k, $7k, $12k, $4k, etc. across all cards from month to month. I'm just putting it out there that 10T takes no issue with this at all, so balance micromanagement or keeping steady statement balances doesn't seem to be problematic in the least.

I posted something similar on here and Reddit over a year ago… https://www.reddit.com/r/CRedit/s/i1lDVjK09G At the time to me it appeared trended data was in quarterly chunks. So even the AZEO before a mortgage is not really affected. While it is true rising or falling balance trends do affect your score your average trend does nothing and if you always stay at 0-1% there is nothing to “trend” downward. While I am not tracking 10T, and for nonscoring reasons ( I don’t like balances hanging over me) I do prefer to keep my card balances paid to zero. I have come to realize AZEO is pretty over hyped AWB is like 5 points.

Beefy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:21 pm While it is true rising or falling balance trends do affect your score your average trend does nothing and if you always stay at 0-1% there is nothing to “trend” downward. While I am not tracking 10T, and for nonscoring reasons ( I don’t like balances hanging over me) I do prefer to keep my card balances paid to zero. I have come to realize AZEO is pretty over hyped AWB is like 5 points.

That's part of the issue though... "staying" at 0%-1%. You'd have to be able to commit to that essentially forever, which if you're willing to do that's fine. In the event that you did increase reported utilization (whether by design or necessity) it would impact your scores. I have not found AWB to be over hyped (outside of EX8 which is bullet proof) as I've seen 11 points on EQ and 15 points on TU. Those are just 8s though, where there can be a greater impact on other models.

Hey @EvenBetterThanTheRealThing ! Thanks for sharing your data. So what you experienced is more or less what I thought would be the case with someone that moved from micromanaged balances to non micromanaged balances with respect to 10T scores. The reason your 10T scores are lower now compared to a year ago is definitely due to your AWB% increasing, your individual card utilization increasing and of course your aggregate utilization increasing. Had you stopped micromanaging balances a year ago, I'm quite sure your 10Ts would be higher today. Your "trend" would have then been flat for the last year, but due to switching up your approach to organically reported balances the trend has been upward and viewed as an elevated risk by 10T.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:26 pm

Beefy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:21 pm While it is true rising or falling balance trends do affect your score your average trend does nothing and if you always stay at 0-1% there is nothing to “trend” downward. While I am not tracking 10T, and for nonscoring reasons ( I don’t like balances hanging over me) I do prefer to keep my card balances paid to zero. I have come to realize AZEO is pretty over hyped AWB is like 5 points.

That's part of the issue though... "staying" at 0%-1%. You'd have to be able to commit to that essentially forever, which if you're willing to do that's fine. In the event that you did increase reported utilization (whether by design or necessity) it would impact your scores. I have not found AWB to be over hyped (outside of EX8 which is bullet proof) as I've seen 11 points on EQ and 15 points on TU. Those are just 8s though, where there can be a greater impact on other models.

Even 15 points in the grant scheme of things unless you are 15 or less points from a threshold is largely meaningless.

Beefy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:22 pm Even 15 points in the grant scheme of things unless you are 15 or less points from a threshold is largely meaningless.

That could be 20-25 points on 2/4/5 (I didn't check those) which could be meaningful depending on profile.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:44 pm Hey @EvenBetterThanTheRealThing ! Thanks for sharing your data. So what you experienced is more or less what I thought would be the case with someone that moved from micromanaged balances to non micromanaged balances with respect to 10T scores. The reason your 10T scores are lower now compared to a year ago is definitely due to your AWB% increasing, your individual card utilization increasing and of course your aggregate utilization increasing. Had you stopped micromanaging balances a year ago, I'm quite sure your 10Ts would be higher today. Your "trend" would have then been flat for the last year, but due to switching up your approach to organically reported balances the trend has been upward and viewed as an elevated risk by 10T.

That makes sense. I'm going to report a higher utilization this month (12-13% probably even with the VX CLI) cause I booked a hotel for a fall trip. FWIW for DPs (all in EQ, TU, EX order): 5,4,2: 685 712 694 8: 691 691 689 9: 713 711 720 10: 691 697 691 10T 699 703 701 Edit: missed a word the first time.

I too have found F9 to be the most forgiving / they're usually top scores.