HOWTO: Get a +62 point FICO 8 jump on a clean file

TU8 799/EX8 786/EQ8 805 EQ5 770/EX2 757 8/18/2023

3 years ago

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:41 pm

Saeren

Rebel Administrator

Recent HP or new account.

Level0 Last INQFriday, August 23, 2024 Gardening For15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onSaturday, August 23, 2025 INQ 1yr in11 months, 15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes INQ 2yr onSunday, August 23, 2026 INQ 2yr in1 year, 11 months, 15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes Goal6 months Goal DateSunday, February 23, 2025 Goal In5 months, 15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes

The installment loan trick is definitely one of the biggest FICO hacks for thin files. Actually the only reason I have 800s with my thick file is the SSL I have. I would drop to around 760-780 without it.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:13 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

That's a massive gain, @Cassie ! It definitely puts to shame the "typical" or average 20-25 point gain that we often read about / suggest to others regarding a SSL. I think it's worth mentioning when providing these recommendations that on a thin file the benefit can be magnified several times.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:02 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:13 pm That's a massive gain, @Cassie ! It definitely puts to shame the "typical" or average 20-25 point gain that we often read about / suggest to others regarding a SSL. I think it's worth mentioning when providing these recommendations that on a thin file the benefit can be magnified several times.

I think this was a combination of the SSL Trick and crossing the 12 month threshold at the same time. It's really no wonder this isn't widely known, because most people want a card right away and aren't going to wait a year with an SSL. Those 750/748 EQ/EX scores are what Citi saw when they did a double-pull before approving me for the Costco Visa card at $6,500. The 1yr0mo history and 0 inq's at those 2 definitely helped as well. I think it's a pretty good alternative credit plan for someone who is about to turn 18.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:20 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Did you pay the balance down to below the ideal threshold at the same time the account aged to 12 months? It would be nice to see those 2 score-improving variables independent of one another.

I don't think starting with a SSL is a bad move, although I strongly believe as I'm sure everyone does that starting the clock on a major bank card revolver as soon as possible is best.

While it's difficult to quantify, I'm sure we all agree that the approval odds on a [first] major bank card for a profile that's got a SSL present with 1 year of history is going to be better than without one. I would imagine that your revolver success is at least in part attributed to that first account.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:38 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:20 pm Did you pay the balance down to below the ideal threshold at the same time the account aged to 12 months? It would be nice to see those 2 score-improving variables independent of one another.

Here's something that I find hard to believe:

December 4, 2018 TU 1B Report from MF: TU8 = 666
December 20, 2018 CU HP on TU for my very first credit card (Mastercard): TU8 = 728

I opened that SSL on December 7, 2017. The aging gains - if any - would have already been included in that 1B on Dec 4, 2018. The 666 already had the aging gains included, and that 1B was showing the SSL at 17% util. The only difference between the 666 and 728 reports is the SSL dropping to 8.47%. +62 points all from the SSL Trick? I mean, it sure looks that way to me! But a lot of people on MF didn't think that was possible. It's the single largest gain in points on a clean file that I have seen on the internet. No one writes articles about this, yet they write plenty of breathless articles about 20-25pt gains from aging.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:16 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in15 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Do you have a November 2018 score pull by chance?

I'm curious if you had an earlier pull what sort of gain was realized from the aging metric increases that took place on December 1.

And wait a sec... when that HP landed isn't the 728 score provided at that time inclusive of that HP? If that's the case, your SSL gain was being diluted by whatever that inquiry was valued at. The gain then associated with the SSL paydown would therefore be greater than 62 points, no?

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:09 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:16 pm Do you have a November 2018 score pull by chance?

I don't. At the time, I thought I should wait 12 months before checking my FICO scores, so that 1B was the first time I ever saw my own FICO scores.

I'm curious if you had an earlier pull what sort of gain was realized from the aging metric increases that took place on December 1.

Maybe because the only account on my file was an installment loan, there was no aging gain at 12 months?

And wait a sec... when that HP landed isn't the 728 score provided at that time inclusive of that HP? If that's the case, your SSL gain was being diluted by whatever that inquiry was valued at. The gain then associated with the SSL paydown would therefore be greater than 62 points, no?

I thought about that as well, but EX8 never had any inquiries and it was 687 before the +61 jump to 748 when the SSL reported at 8.47%. That's a good question though. @Birdman , what do you think of the application score being inclusive of the HP? I always thought it would be the score before the HP was recorded.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:23 pm

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in24 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Absolutely not. The score given at HP is the score before the deduction for the inquiry.

There’s no doubt that there are gains as oldest revolver crosses thresholds and as oldest installment does. The gains are greater for revolver than installment, and the gains are greater on a young Scorecard.

The best method would be to get a first card and SSL at the same time at 18 years of age or younger if possible via joint. But since Revolver thresholds tend give more points one will definitely get a higher score sooner by getting the revolver started as soon as possible, but starting the installment as soon as possible is optimal as well.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:41 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:23 pm There’s no doubt that there are gains as oldest revolver crosses thresholds and as oldest installment does. The gains are greater for revolver than installment, and the gains are greater on a young Scorecard.

The interesting thing here is that TU 1B was pulled on December 4, 2018, and any aging gains that happened on December 1, 2018 would have already been factored into that 666 TU8 score. We know there doesn't have to be an account update or any other file change for the aging gains to show up.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:35 pm

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in24 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

But didn’t your first card reporting and the closing of the SSL conflate?

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:59 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:35 pm But didn’t your first card reporting and the closing of the SSL conflate?

First 2 cards reported at the same time the SSL closed, but that was the following month in January 2019. For all of December it just looked like I had a single account - that SSL at 8.47%. I also agree with you about getting a secured card right away. In fact, at 18 I would do 2 $500 secured cards and a $500 SSL on day one. Those cards would both graduate easily at 12 months.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:05 pm

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in24 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:59 pm
Birdman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:35 pm But didn’t your first card reporting and the closing of the SSL conflate?
First 2 cards reported at the same time the SSL closed, but that was the following month in January 2019. For all of December it just looked like I had a single account - that SSL at 8.47%. I also agree with you about getting a secured card right away. In fact, at 18 I would do 2 $500 secured cards and a $500 SSL on day one. Those cards would both graduate easily at 12 months.

@Cassie I knew something was conflated I just couldn’t recall. Yeah I would totally agree with your recommendation. I would even bump it up to 3 secured cards & an SSL on day one.

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:06 pm

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in24 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

So we should be able to calculate possibly what the change was from the two cards reporting then?

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:09 pm

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in18 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 12 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

That SSL was a gigantic score boost. I would imagine you could be in the 800s with it open an fully optimized making you...

3 years ago

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:11 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes Next Level in6 days, 3 hours, and 19 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, 20 hours, and 41 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:06 pm So we should be able to calculate possibly what the change was from the two cards reporting then?

I don't think that would work - just too much happening at once on that January 2019 MF 3B. That was the first month that showed any revolving credit usage. And @Allzero ....I still have a sample of that perfume! lol It's not that bad really.