One less Account with Balance +11 on EX2

As we are all aware, mortgage scores despise accounts with balance. I just had an account report a zero balance and saw an 11 point score increase on EX2, from 713 -> 724. EX8 remained the same staying at 721. Industry score changes: AU2 676 --> 686, BC2 686 --> 698, F3 703 --> 705, BC8 713 --> 715
I have 16 open revolving accounts and 3 open installment accounts. I went from 10 revolving awb to 9 revolving awb.
Overall AWB ratio: 68% --> 63%
Revolver Only AWB ratio: 63% --> 56%

I'm not sure if this came from crossing a certain percentage or if it was from decreasing the number of revolving accounts reporting a balance below 10. From my understanding, the accounts with a balance metric doesn't differentiate between installment and revolvers. Do closed accounts play into the AWB metric?

Good info and this highlights the importance of AZEO implementation leading up to a mortgage for those with on the cusp type scores where every point counts.

Tough to say if you crossed a AWB percentage threshold or if it was due to the hard number change you suggested.

As for a closed account being included in the metric, I would think not... although if the closed account has a balance I would think that balance would be considered. Perhaps that adds only to the numerator, not the denominator though?

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:58 am Good info and this highlights the importance of AZEO implementation leading up to a mortgage for those with on the cusp type scores where every point counts. Tough to say if you crossed a AWB percentage threshold or if it was due to the hard number change you suggested. As for a closed account being included in the metric, I would think not... although if the closed account has a balance I would think that balance would be considered. Perhaps that adds only to the numerator, not the denominator though?

I was thinking the same thing, just thought if closed accounts counted it may point to a more likely percentage threshold. I should hopefully be paying more accounts off over the next several months so I'll definitely contribute more data as I can.

I hear you on that. It just doesn't seem to make sense for closed accounts to be factored in. But, as well all know, there are some things with Fico scoring that don't make sense so you never know.

@aj2121 Awesome work! Believe it or not, all accounts open and closed, loan and revolver count on EX2, you better believe it we confirmed it believe it or not with Trudys and then I reconfirmed it and I’m actually working on that right now, so I need to know what percentages you crossed for that please using all accounts open and closed on Experian. I believe I just found one at 45%.

Birdman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:52 am @aj2121 Awesome work! Believe it or not, all accounts open and closed, loan and revolver count on EX2, you better believe it we confirmed it believe it or not with Trudys and then I reconfirmed it and I’m actually working on that right now, so I need to know what percentages you crossed for that please using all accounts open and closed on Experian. I believe I just found one at 45%.

Well that is quite interesting. Factoring in closed accounts I went from 13/32 (41%) --> 12/32 (38%). 40% seems like a much more natural percentage threshold. haha

Birdman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:52 am Believe it or not, all accounts open and closed, loan and revolver count on EX2, you better believe it we confirmed it believe it or not with Trudys and then I reconfirmed it and I’m actually working on that right now, so I need to know what percentages you crossed for that please using all accounts open and closed on Experian

Not on the newer models though, correct?

@aj2121 Yes I agree it seems more natural, but the algorithm is man-made not natural. can you move back up to confirm that and ensure that it wasn’t caused by something else? Because I can’t imagine what else could’ve just caused mine at 45%.

Birdman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:03 pm @aj2121 Yes I agree it seems more natural, but the algorithm is man-made not natural. can you move back up to confirm that and ensure that it wasn’t caused by something else? Because I can’t imagine what else could’ve just caused mine at 45%.

I had a card report a balance yesterday and it reversed the points that I had gained. That card went from a zero balance to a $4,900 balance, so there was certainly potential for other factors to effect the score but I only saw the 11 point drop, which exactly reversed my short lived point gains. I have quite a few 0% financing offers in play, so I am going to see if I can arrange my payments in a way to further test this next month with a much smaller balance change.

That's a fairly significant amount of dollars in addition to just another non-zero reported balance. Definitely could be more to it going from a $0 balance to $4900 compared to $0 to a 2-3 digit balance.

Wow one reported and you got the same number of points back? I totally agree that that magnitude of balance could definitely cause a point change on EX2 by itself. We know that there are lower balance thresholds, but we don’t know all of them or how often they exist.

I’m certain they’re not every couple hundred dollars & probably not even every couple thousand. As a matter of fact, it’s possible there could be some at lower numbers and then scattered at higher numbers, so it’s possible that you did not cross a balance threshold considering your aggregate Revolving balance is not extremely low.

I would think your past several of them and I don’t know if that amount would necessarily trigger another. In other words, I don’t think the intervals are consistent on balance thresholds. But I could be wrong.

I think I need to go redo my calculations just to be on the safe side because I did have some hokey pokey with some accounts being removed because they were duplicates. But I was using the numbers Experian was giving me each day, so they should’ve been accurate percentages.

I don’t know I’m just theorizing here.

The balance magnitude was pretty great; it did cost me points on EX8 and on EX2 bankcard. But EX2 and EX2 auto it exactly reversed the points gained from having one less account with balance. So far I haven't noticed any obvious balance thresholds on EX2 as I have paid down my utilization. There were definitely utilization thresholds and those were obvious. I do have an AU account, but that should be counting as just a normal account. I am planning to remove myself from the AU in August. Unfortunately, I just ran the numbers with the AU removed from my history and that would still put me at under 10 cards with a balance and under 40%, so I won't be able to use that as a way to isolate it from either being the number of revolvers with a balance or from awb percentages. Maybe I can find a card to let report a small balance before the AU is removed... EDIT: Only have one card that will work for reporting a balance, it currently has a negative balance so I'll need to see if I can find something to buy with it before the end of the month.

aj2121 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:30 pm The balance magnitude was pretty great; it did cost me points on EX8 and on EX2 bankcard. But EX2 and EX2 auto it exactly reversed the points gained from having one less account with balance. So far I haven't noticed any obvious balance thresholds on EX2 as I have paid down my utilization. There were definitely utilization thresholds and those were obvious. I do have an AU account, but that should be counting as just a normal account. I am planning to remove myself from the AU in August. Unfortunately, I just ran the numbers with the AU removed from my history and that would still put me at under 10 cards with a balance and under 40%, so I won't be able to use that as a way to isolate it from either being the number of revolvers with a balance or from awb percentages. Maybe I can find a card to let report a small balance before the AU is removed... EDIT: Only have one card that will work for reporting a balance, it currently has a negative balance so I'll need to see if I can find something to buy with it before the end of the month.

Number of Revolvers is not a thing on EX2. Just AWB.

Birdman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:44 pm Number of Revolvers is not a thing on EX2. Just AWB.

Good to know! I was not aware of that. I still think I'll try to get a $10 balance on my card that way the AU removal won't conflate any data, then when that card updates to a zero balance at the end of August I will see if I see the same score change occurs again.

Let me correct that: number of revolvers with a balance is not a thing on EX2. I’m not saying number of revolvers is not, but … Number of bankcards is, ratio of revolvers to loans is, Number of tradelines is. I cannot confirm number of revolvers is, but I cannot confirm it’s not. I don’t think it is either, but I wanted to clarify my statement that I was referring to revolvers with a balance is not a metric, the metric is a AWB. Edited. @aj2121

Had a $1 charge that was pending on my card that I didn't catch. I would have been able to cross the threshold again with only a $100 change in balance, but now I have a $1 balance reported that is just taunting me.