EX2: -5pts EX8: -4 crossing the 5% threshold

3 years ago

Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:16 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Have you isolated it down to the 5% point specifically to identify if that's indeed the true threshold that's being crossed leading to your score shifts?

Any chance a raw dollar value such as $2000 could be playing a role?

3 years ago

Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:56 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:10 am EX2 is now showing Short Account History, Accounts with Balances, and High Credit Usage. Before it was just Short Account History and Accounts with Balances. EX8 changed from Short Account History to Short Account History and No Loan Activity. Changes in daily reports:
From 4% to 6% aggregate utilization, both reports at 4-of-4 AWB
From $1,632 to $2,412 aggregate balance.

My cards close in this order: Mastercard (2nd), Visa (3rd), Discover (6th), and finally AMEX (7th). I'm switching which card reports $0 this month, taking Mastercard from $0 to $180 (9% of $2000 limit). Visa just went from $346 to $1,126 (2% to 8% individual util). No card is above individual util of 9%, so I didn't lose points from that individual Visa change alone. This is yet another time I have crossed that 5% threshold and saw a reduction in score. It must be something unique to profiles like mine with such short credit file history. It's been that way from the beginning to my current AoOA - and age of credit file - of 3yr 9mo. (Last month my Discover had the highest individual balance at $848, and it will be $0 when it closes in a few days. Agg bal will drop to $1,564 temporarily before AMEX updates later. Final agg bal will be $1,773.00 / 4% for the month, so I should see the points come right back.)

@Cassie no doubt about the 5% threshold at Experian 8 but it’s not limited to young files because you’re over three years. Not to mention the util code appeared to confirm it. @BrutalBodyShots yes she has reconfirmed it numerous times.

3 years ago

Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:31 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:16 am Have you isolated it down to the 5% point specifically to identify if that's indeed the true threshold that's being crossed leading to your score shifts? Any chance a raw dollar value such as $2000 could be playing a role?

I had a long thread about this on MF where I posted every time I crossed 5%. I stopped doing it around 7 times or so, all under $2000 aggregate. (I have it bookmarked in Firefox but MF is asking for a login to view it now. I can't find it on search over there either.) Usually I was waiting for my 3B to be ready before posting so I could show the changes on all 28 scores. This time I got to see it with higher total credit limit and with daily EX scores. Before AoOA 3yr0mo, it caused a -3 point drop on EX8. Now it's -4. I also lost points before at 5% / $1,999 and that also triggered High Credit Usage on EX2.

3 years ago

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:42 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Seems that 5% is concrete then for sure!

3 years ago

Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:14 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

I’ve concluded it is the most sure of all the utilization thresholds. Probably the best documented, by @Cassie

3 years ago

Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:27 am

GApeachy

Seasoned Rebel

GApeachy has passed the 12 month threshold!
No scorable inquiries on file!

Level13 Last INQMonday, August 7, 2023 Gardening For1 year, 1 month, 9 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in20 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 7th INQ 1yr onWednesday, August 7, 2024 INQ 1yr reached1 month, 9 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, August 7, 2025 INQ 2yr in10 months, 21 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, August 7, 2025 Goal In10 months, 21 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes

Cassie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:31 am I had a long thread about this on MF where I posted every time I crossed 5%. I stopped doing it around 7 times or so, all under $2000 aggregate. (I have it bookmarked in Firefox but MF is asking for a login to view it now. I can't find it on search over there either.)

Any of these threads may get you there perhaps? Do you remember the title? What about 3rd link below? Close? If you can remember any part of the title I'll help you look. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Unders ... 48/page/32 https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Unders ... -p/6177924 https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Unders ... ue#M159540 ETA:https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Unders ... ue#M153902

3 years ago

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:00 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

GApeachy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:27 am Any of these threads may get you there perhaps? Do you remember the title? What about 3rd link below? Close? If you can remember any part of the title I'll help you look.

Thanks, @GApeachy . I think the problem is that Google indexed it with my original topic title and I changed it sometime after. "Changed Subject to "EQ/TU/EX FICO 8: 5% Aggregate Threshold" from "EX has a 4% aggregate utilization threshold (0,4]" That's the new title in bold. I can search for it and find it, but then when I click it, MF asks me to login. I wonder if they locked that thread or moved it into another one.

3 years ago

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:09 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

This is from my own 'Community Backup" that captured that thread in its entirety. (Funny how I used the word 'rebel' in that post long before even thinking about creating a new forum. lol) ----Below as posted at MF ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we go again. 1st card (of only 4, because I'm a rebel here lol) reported $0 this month at Experian, taking me from $1999 aggregate to $1853. EX 8 +6pts - reversing the drop exactly from going up to 5% from 3% of a $41,500 total credit limit: That's 4.816% (5%) at $1999 to 4.465% (4%) at $1853. See what happened there?!? 4.465 rounded down to 4%, just like we were told in the AMA with FICO scientists, and once again disproving the old theory of there being a ceiling function that always rounds up percentages.

3 years ago

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:33 am

GApeachy

Seasoned Rebel

GApeachy has passed the 12 month threshold!
No scorable inquiries on file!

Level13 Last INQMonday, August 7, 2023 Gardening For1 year, 1 month, 9 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in20 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 7th INQ 1yr onWednesday, August 7, 2024 INQ 1yr reached1 month, 9 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, August 7, 2025 INQ 2yr in10 months, 21 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, August 7, 2025 Goal In10 months, 21 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes

Yeah, I googled the exact link (exact title) and had to sign in and got "Access Denied".

3 years ago

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:03 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Hopefully a decade from now people are searching for / finding threads on our forum and not MF. It irks me that we've got to circle back there so much, although I get it is what it is.

3 years ago

Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:08 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in15 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:00 am
GApeachy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:27 am Any of these threads may get you there perhaps? Do you remember the title? What about 3rd link below? Close? If you can remember any part of the title I'll help you look.
Thanks, @GApeachy . I think the problem is that Google indexed it with my original topic title and I changed it sometime after. "Changed Subject to "EQ/TU/EX FICO 8: 5% Aggregate Threshold" from "EX has a 4% aggregate utilization threshold (0,4]" That's the new title in bold. I can search for it and find it, but then when I click it, MF asks me to login. I wonder if they locked that thread or moved it into another one.

It’s funny it does that to me on certain threads as well and I don’t know why, other ones it does not.

3 years ago

Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:11 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Well this is interesting...an EX8 drop of -2pts due to Number of Accounts With Balances! I never saw this prior to AoOA 3yr0mo. I'm at AoOA 3yr9mo now. @BrutalBodyShots always said EX8 was 'bulletproof' concerning AWB, and I thought so too because that's also what I was experiencing. It probably is that way for the majority of scorecards. At some point I'll switch scorecards [EDIT: Has to be something else since I'm on scorecard C8 and there's nothing higher to switch to] and never again see this little drop on EX8. Look at the 9/3 report row below. It's not the $1,632 that triggered it because farther down I went back up to $1,773 with no change in score from the prior report that had the same 3-of-4 AWB. The AWB from 3 to 4 (of 4) is the cause of the -2 point drop. (9/1 increase is aging alone. AAoA 2yr6mo likely. 9/4 drop is crossing the 5% threshold.) [Click to enlarge on desktop.]

experian-changes_through_5pct_and_AWB.png 13.22 KiB Viewed 124 times

3 years ago

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:34 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

Very interesting and surprising. I wonder why you saw a scoring change when I and others have not. Any ideas? I think our scorecards were the same. Could it be another metric within the scorecard possibly?

3 years ago

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:11 pm

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level55 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in27 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on October 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 7 months, 2 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:34 am Very interesting and surprising. I wonder why you saw a scoring change when I and others have not. Any ideas? I think our scorecards were the same. Could it be another metric within the scorecard possibly?

I shouldn't have said 'switch scorecards', because you're right, I have nothing more to 'switch to'. We were on the same scorecard. I think these differences are due to different weighting based on age within a scorecard. This is commonly called sub-binning with the data analysis that FICO uses (logistic regression). YOUNG/MATURE is a binary value that causes a scorecard switch at AoOA 3yr0mo. There must be further binning/segmentation inside these scorecards. That makes sense because I'm still relatively new to credit. It also seems reasonable that they found different behavior patterns for people new to credit compared to people with much more history. I may be in the 1st aging bin within the CLEAN/THICK/MATURE/NO-NEW-REVOLVER scorecard. I remember so many people posting that they saw the same thing you did: AWB had no effect on EX8. I bet they all had much more credit history length than I do now.

3 years ago

Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:07 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes Next Level in6 days, 10 hours, and 22 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 13 hours, and 38 minutes ago

I believe that's a reasonable explanation. I agree that it would only make sense for aging metrics to continue to matter / be weighted accordingly once whatever line in the sand (say, 3 years) is crossed.

It would be cool to try and identify the point at which AWB on EX8 no longer matters and indeed becomes bulletproof. I guess we can use your [younger] file and my [older] file as the bookends and look for others (of which there are many no doubt) that fall somewhere in the middle and have them play the AWB game to test impact/no impact to EX8.