The friend of a friend that I took to Bank of America for her first credit card just got her first credit score ever. She called me to ask about something and I told her to create an account with Credit Karma. I did it for her on my computer and got the following: vs3_at_2_months-zero_aggregate.png I checked everything to see why there is a difference on TU and EQ, and I can't see anything anywhere EXCEPT for the 'Last Payment Date' which shows August 17 on TU and August 1 for EQ ! 15 point difference....very strange. I just realized why....the single inquiry on TU whereas EQ has zero! -15pts for a single inquiry, which is right around what I experienced with my first inquiries on a new credit profile. Here's the really cool thing: there is $0 reporting and the single account age is only 2 months. That 3 month boost on VS3 is very real and very good. I saw it myself when I got my first credit card and it reached 3 months age in April 2019. It was +44 points across the board with very little change in aggregate balance from 2mo to 3mo, same 2-of-2 reporting a balance, 6 to 5% aggregate change, $510 to $425 total balance. All she has to do now is put a small charge on it and let that report along with the new 3mo age. This is going to be good!
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VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

1 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:08 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours Next Level in6 days and 2 hours on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago
The friend of a friend that I took to Bank of America for her first credit card just got her first credit score ever. She called me to ask about something and I told her to create an account with Credit Karma. I did it for her on my computer and got the following:
vs3_at_2_months-zero_aggregate.png 42.65 KiB Viewed 265 times
I checked everything to see why there is a difference on TU and EQ, and I can't see anything anywhere EXCEPT for the 'Last Payment Date' which shows August 17 on TU and August 1 for EQ! 15 point difference....very strange. I just realized why....the single inquiry on TU whereas EQ has zero! -15pts for a single inquiry, which is right around what I experienced with my first inquiries on a new credit profile. Here's the really cool thing: there is $0 reporting and the single account age is only 2 months. That 3 month boost on VS3 is very real and very good. I saw it myself when I got my first credit card and it reached 3 months age in April 2019. It was +44 points across the board with very little change in aggregate balance from 2mo to 3mo, same 2-of-2 reporting a balance, 6 to 5% aggregate change, $510 to $425 total balance. All she has to do now is put a small charge on it and let that report along with the new 3mo age. This is going to be good!
Cassie
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

2 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:47 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author
BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!
Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours Next Level in15 days and 2 hours on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago
A few months away from her first Fico score then right?
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

3 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:15 pm
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Birdman
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Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours Next Level in24 days and 2 hours on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago
Cool!
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

4 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:09 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours Next Level in6 days and 2 hours on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:47 pm A few months away from her first Fico score then right?
Yes, opening date says July 30, which is the day we went into a BofA branch and she applied. So from July 1 for FICO, but not so for Vantage Score! October 1 would be 3 months for FICO, and January 1 will be the 6 month mark there. But with VS3, she is seeing the same thing I have been all along: my VS3 aging is 1 month behind FICO. We both have oldest open revolving accounts with opening dates late in a month. (Mine are 20th and 23rd, hers is 30th.) The first thing I could think of is that VS3 ages on the exact date, but I tested that quite a few times and never saw score gains on those exact dates through CK or WalletHub - only on the next 1st of the month after that date. Maybe it only happens with accounts opened after the middle of the month. I am going to pay for her FICO 3B pull in January! Can't wait to see what a single revolving account looks like at 6 months! I've never even come across that type of report on the internet with all my searching.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

5 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:41 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author
BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!
Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours Next Level in15 days and 2 hours on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago
When you say you see it aging 1 month behind, what are you basing it on? Is it a CMS giving you the age? If so, maybe the CMS is just wrong and their fluff summary simply isn't following what the VS3 algorithm is really doing.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

6 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:56 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours Next Level in6 days and 2 hours on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:41 pm When you say you see it aging 1 month behind, what are you basing it on? Is it a CMS giving you the age? If so, maybe the CMS is just wrong and their fluff summary simply isn't following what the VS3 algorithm is really doing.
I was basing it on the fact that we know VS3 has a 3mo boost after the first open revolving account, at least. Thomas_Thumb even had a graph straight from one of Vantage Score's PDFs that showed it, long before I experienced it on my own file. At FICO, I received score gains at 3mo in March after getting my first cards, both opened in the same month (Dec). I believe that one was Age of Oldest Revolving Account, because that large score gain doesn't happen to others with longer history, and didn't even happen to me after getting my next 2 cards 1yr2mo later. (I got +23 to +25 on all EX8's at 3mo AoORA, nothing on the 2's.) That same month, CK and WalletHub showed my VS3 age as 2mo. No score change. The next month, in April, was when the +44 score gain on VS3 happened at what was shown by CK as 3mo Age of Oldest Open Revolving Account or maybe just any account. I'm not sure there with VS3. So the expected 3mo score change coincided with what the VS3 CMSs showed.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

7 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:11 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author
BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!
Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours Next Level in15 days and 2 hours on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago
Did the score increase come on or about the 1st of the month? I guess I'm wondering if VS goes by the 1st the way Fico does.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

8 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:29 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours Next Level in6 days and 2 hours on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:11 pm Did the score increase come on or about the 1st of the month? I guess I'm wondering if VS goes by the 1st the way Fico does.
It sure did! I was waiting for it with over week since my last CK pull. Back then, with such a new credit profile, I was checking them all very often! I did the pull a little after 3am on the 1st and that's when I saw +44 on EQ/TU VS3. FICO age on that day was 4mo for AoYRA/AoORA. I would like to see what happens with someone new to credit that has a card opening before the middle of the month. I'm thinking that might be why others don't see this difference in aging metrics between VS3 and FICO.
Cassie
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

9 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:23 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author
BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!
Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours Next Level in15 days and 2 hours on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago
Definitely a theory worth testing and hopefully finding the answer to. Are there any other known VS3 age factor thresholds that we can look to testing outside of a new file?
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

10 of 31
3 years ago
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:34 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours Next Level in6 days and 2 hours on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago
BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:23 pm Definitely a theory worth testing and hopefully finding the answer to. Are there any other known VS3 age factor thresholds that we can look to testing outside of a new file?
If someone gets a new card and sees a dip on VS3, they are likely to see most of that come back at either 3mo or 6mo. Thomas_Thumb's graph from a VS3 PDF only showed the gain at 3mo, but I've seen it twice now at both 3mo and 6mo with VS3. So 3mo and 6mo thresholds. Did your EQ VS3 score recently lose points after new cards showed up on your file? I'm using EQ here because you said most of the inquiries were on EX. I'm just wondering how profiles with longer credit history react to new accounts on VS3.
Cassie
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

11 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:22 am
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BrutalBodyShots
Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author
BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!
Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours Next Level in15 days and 2 hours on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago
It lost a few points. Not sure how many. I think my score for the most part was in the 836-839 range on EQ VS3 for the last few years, likely fluctuating slightly due to AWB / balance amounts. In the 2 months following my 4 new accounts that score has been 834-835. The impact has been minor. I'd expect the single HP taken on EQ to drop my scores that amount alone, not factoring in the aging metrics changing at all.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

12 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:19 am
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Birdman
Primer AuthorCo-Founder
Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours Next Level in24 days and 2 hours on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago
@Cassie did you rule out average age of revolvers for that score change at three months? I know they would’ve been the same for you. Interesting theory about VS3, quite possible. I have noticed a month lag at times myself.
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  • Score data EQ8-827; TU8-817; EX8-816
    EQ5-751; TI4- 800; EX2-814
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

13 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:44 pm
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Cassie
DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach
Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours Next Level in6 days and 2 hours on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 24 days, and 22 hours ago
Birdman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:19 am @Cassie did you rule out average age of revolvers for that score change at three months? I know they would’ve been the same for you. Interesting theory about VS3, quite possible. I have noticed a month lag at times myself.
I never even thought about AAoORA (or simply AAoOA ) with VS3, since I saw the graph that Thomas_Thumb posted. That graph showed decreasing score effects over 3 months on VS3, and it was from one of their documents. I think it was about AoYRA or AoYA, but my own +44pt gain had to be AoORA/AoOA since I was just starting out. Same with my EX8 +23 jump that no one sees later on from AoYA/AoYRA. I also saw 3mo and 6mo score gains again on VS3 after I added another 2 cards to my file 1yr2mo later. That lag you see with VS3..does your oldest account have an opening date after the middle of that month? VS3 definitely does not count aging via the exact opening date. I think if the opening date is after the middle of the month, any aging value change and/or score change will happen on the next 1st of the month after that.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

14 of 31
3 years ago
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:42 pm
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Birdman
Primer AuthorCo-Founder
Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours Next Level in24 days and 2 hours on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago
Cassie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:44 pm
Birdman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:19 am @Cassie did you rule out average age of revolvers for that score change at three months? I know they would’ve been the same for you. Interesting theory about VS3, quite possible. I have noticed a month lag at times myself.
I never even thought about AAoORA (or simply AAoOA ) with VS3, since I saw the graph that Thomas_Thumb posted. That graph showed decreasing score effects over 3 months on VS3, and it was from one of their documents. I think it was about AoYRA or AoYA, but my own +44pt gain had to be AoORA/AoOA since I was just starting out. Same with my EX8 +23 jump that no one sees later on from AoYA/AoYRA. I also saw 3mo and 6mo score gains again on VS3 after I added another 2 cards to my file 1yr2mo later. That lag you see with VS3..does your oldest account have an opening date after the middle of that month? VS3 definitely does not count aging via the exact opening date. I think if the opening date is after the middle of the month, any aging value change and/or score change will happen on the next 1st of the month after that.
It could’ve been a combination of average age and oldest age revolver possibly, and I don’t know hold on I will check…. Would you believe it was on the 15th? Lol. I don’t know what to think about that you tell me. Lol.
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  • Score data EQ8-827; TU8-817; EX8-816
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

15 of 31
3 years ago
Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:13 am
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BrutalBodyShots
Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author
BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!
Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours Next Level in15 days and 2 hours on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 15 days, and 22 hours ago
Haha what are the odds of that, lol.
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Re: VS3 Score at 2 months on a New Credit Profile

16 of 31
3 years ago
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:19 pm
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Birdman
Primer AuthorCo-Founder
Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.
Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours Next Level in24 days and 2 hours on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 5 days, and 22 hours ago
You’re right what are the odds? Maybe we can learn where the threshold is or breakpoint from this though.
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  • Score data EQ8-827; TU8-817; EX8-816
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