TU4 reason code changes pre/post spree

3 years ago

Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:08 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in9 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing the data point. That is interesting on the second negative reason code. Obviously, you've done very well without having a non-mortgage installment loan.

I presume since your scores are top tier that it only shows 2 negative reason codes?

Generally, TU4 show 4 negative reason codes, correct?

What has been your highest TU4 score?

Was it 839 or 843 where TU4 tops out?

3 years ago

Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:40 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

I don't think I've ever seen it above 820, even when I hadn't opened an account in over 4 years.

My lender has always just given me 2 negative reason codes with the TU4 score they provide. No clue why they've never provided 4, which would be nice especially considering the codes I've listed above... as it would be good to know what was in the #3 and #4 slots both times.

3 years ago

Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:48 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in15 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

Yes there is differentiation between mortgage loans and non-mortgage loans in all versions that I’m aware of. however as we all know, loans don’t make a big difference on the mortgage scores, so that’s really a BS code that doesn’t mean too much.

3 years ago

Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:42 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

Yet it means more than my length of accounts factors based on its position and those length of accounts factors have only gotten worse since they were last visible as reason codes. That's the part I don't really get.

3 years ago

Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:59 pm

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in9 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:40 am I don't think I've ever seen it above 820, even when I hadn't opened an account in over 4 years. My lender has always just given me 2 negative reason codes with the TU4 score they provide. No clue why they've never provided 4, which would be nice especially considering the codes I've listed above... as it would be good to know what was in the #3 and #4 slots both times.

Went back and dug through my reports. Experian FICO 2 offers up to 4 negative reason codes until you start crossing thresholds. Equifax FICO 5 I get free through DCU, only gives me 2 negative reason codes regardless if score is good or bad. I don't get TU4 so I do not know. I'm guessing a paid service like MF 3 Bureau may offer the 4 negative reason codes if applicable.

3 years ago

Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:43 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

AllZero wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:59 pm I'm guessing a paid service like MF 3 Bureau may offer the 4 negative reason codes if applicable.

Do you know if you do the $29.99 (or whatever) gig with MF and get your 28 Fico scores if you are able to see reason codes to go along with them? I've grabbed the scores a bunch of times but to be honest, I don't think I've ever once looked to see the codes if they're there. I'm going to grab a set of scores in a couple of weeks once I'm back at AZEO, so I'll check it out more closely next go round.

3 years ago

Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:47 am

AllZero

Outlier

AllZero has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level29 Last INQSaturday, March 26, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in9 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 26th INQ 1yr onSunday, March 26, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onTuesday, March 26, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 21 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

I never purchased their products. I don't have an answer.

3 years ago

Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:05 pm

LaHossBoss

Outlier

LaHossBoss has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQThursday, December 9, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 7 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in22 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on October 9th INQ 1yr onFriday, December 9, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 7 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, December 9, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 7 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:43 am
AllZero wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:59 pm I'm guessing a paid service like MF 3 Bureau may offer the 4 negative reason codes if applicable.
Do you know if you do the $29.99 (or whatever) gig with MF and get your 28 Fico scores if you are able to see reason codes to go along with them? I've grabbed the scores a bunch of times but to be honest, I don't think I've ever once looked to see the codes if they're there. I'm going to grab a set of scores in a couple of weeks once I'm back at AZEO, so I'll check it out more closely next go round.

From experience, the codes reduce in number the bteer the score you have. From what I have heard from others, if you have 800+ scores, you get no negative reason codes. If I get "positive" reason codes, it will reduce my number of negative reason codes. Basically no guarantee you will get 4 for each score and probably will get none for scores 800+. Maybe it has changed, I am not sure, it never hurts to give it a try once!

3 years ago

Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:47 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

For the last several years I haven't had a sub-800 score, so it would make sense if the MF CMS omits them at > 800. With my recent spree though I know 5 or 6 of my scores are sub-800 now, so the next time I do a 28 score pull I'll definitely look to see if any of those are accompanied by negative reason statements.

3 years ago

Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in15 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

MF stops giving scores at 800. BBS, remember which ever code is taking the most point will be the highest. Your aging factors are pretty good, so they’re not costing you a lot of points.

Be aware at MF one set of codes are in proper order and the other is not.

3 years ago

Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:35 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 am MF stops giving scores at 800. BBS, remember which ever code is taking the most point will be the highest. Your aging factors are pretty good, so they’re not costing you a lot of points. Be aware at MF one set of codes are in proper order and the other is not.

Yes that's what's got me confused. What I mean is my aging factors haven't really changed with the addition of a few new accounts... but by definition of anything they have only gotten worse due to the new accounts. So, if they were factors pre-spree, you'd think they'd still be negative reason statements post-spree. The emergence of the lack of installment loan reason code post-spree is what's puzzling to me, as I've had no changes at all to open/closed installment loans on my file between those 2 sets of codes. Just trying to figure out why it's seen now. All I can think is that it has something to do with scorecard assignment - no new revolver verses new revolver?

3 years ago

Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:54 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in15 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:35 pm
Birdman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 am MF stops giving scores at 800. BBS, remember which ever code is taking the most point will be the highest. Your aging factors are pretty good, so they’re not costing you a lot of points. Be aware at MF one set of codes are in proper order and the other is not.
Yes that's what's got me confused. What I mean is my aging factors haven't really changed with the addition of a few new accounts... but by definition of anything they have only gotten worse due to the new accounts. So, if they were factors pre-spree, you'd think they'd still be negative reason statements post-spree. The emergence of the lack of installment loan reason code post-spree is what's puzzling to me, as I've had no changes at all to open/closed installment loans on my file between those 2 sets of codes. Just trying to figure out why it's seen now. All I can think is that it has something to do with scorecard assignment - no new revolver verses new revolver?

@BrutalBodyShots yes you are absolutely correct. I was tired and going through a lot of threads and missed that. As a matter of fact, I have started to try to catalog those as you’ll see in the primer where I differentiate between scorecards and what is more important on them under the mortgage scores. That’s important what you just found and if it’s not already in the primer I need to add that, on C2 lack of installment loan is more important than on C1 on TU4. Can’t say it’s more important than aging factors tho, because yours are already so good they are not costing you very much, so it wasn’t hard to knock them out the way, imho. Good observation Rebel!

3 years ago

Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:55 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

So non-mortgage installment loan information is looked for on all TU4 scorecards, it's just more important on C2 verses C1? I really wish I had access to more than 2 codes; it would be nice to see 4 in order.

3 years ago

Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:33 pm

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in15 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 14 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:55 am So non-mortgage installment loan information is looked for on all TU4 scorecards, it's just more important on C2 verses C1? I really wish I had access to more than 2 codes; it would be nice to see 4 in order.

@BrutalBodyShots that’s a big statement to make without enough data to consult. I would opine that it matters on all clean Scorecards on TU4, but Without more data and analysis, I can’t speak for dirty ones. Yes the weighting will definitely vary. There is no free trial for TU for any where is there? Wait a minute do your MF thing.

3 years ago

Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:06 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes Next Level in6 days, 11 hours, and 8 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 24 days, 12 hours, and 52 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:33 pm @BrutalBodyShots that’s a big statement to make without enough data to consult. I would opine that it matters on all clean Scorecards on TU4, but Without more data and analysis, I can’t speak for dirty ones. Yes the weighting will definitely vary. There is no free trial for TU for any where is there? Wait a minute do your MF thing.

I sort of misspoke I think. It's not that non-mortgage installment loan information matters more on a new revolver scorecard relative to a no new revolver scorecard necessarily, it simply matters more than my aging factors. Since my aging factors are pretty strong and certainly above average, I would then say that non-mortgage installment loan information may matter more than aging factors in the majority of cases on a new accounts scorecard for TU4. I gladly take a look at my scores via MF, but I think we concluded that negative statements are dropped at 800+. Since my TU4 is above that already I don't think I'd get any codes provided. I will definitely check though in another week or two once my file is back at AZEO as I was planning a 28 score pull at that time.