Equifax +29 point mystery

Hopefully we can learn some things from what just happened to me. My EQ8 is now 822 (April 14), up from 793 (April 3). That's a 29 point gain. According to Experian's CreditWorks, I've lost the "Few accounts paid on time" negative reason code. Since my previous pull was from April 3, I don't see how this could be an aging metric. Here's the changes I can spot on my credit report: 1) I closed the first SSL from PenFed that they botched (gave me a 10 month term instead of 10 years). 2) My two revolvers, and the two SSLs seem to have updated some payment info. So between these two seemingly minor changes, I gained 29 points. The two SSLs and the Apple Card were all opened in January of this year, so maybe they just hit a threshold on number of payments to remove that negative reason code for me? In the name of science, I've attached redacted copies of my Equifax credit report from both AnnualCreditReport, and Experian CreditWorks. Pulls from both April 3rd and April 14th are attached. See next post for attachements. Edit: Previous discussions on my file are in these two threads: viewtopic.php?p=12054 viewtopic.php?p=12426 What's strange here is that I still have a 60 day late on Equifax and an 822 score seems very high for what should be a dirty file.

Attachments:

Maybe one strange thing, is that on the ACR report, my BofA account shows "Date Closed: May 01, 2015" and the late payments were after that. The account was definitely opened beyond that date, so is the algo somehow discounting the lates? But this wouldn't explain the +29 point increase since that should have been reflected the same in the April 3rd report. I have no idea...

One of a couple things occurred. You said you just had two new accounts hit your report. How many did that make in total? Total open? And total open & closed? Yeah one of a couple things occurred, either scorecard reassignment or yes you may have theoretically reached the minimum amount A payment history required to get rid of that code, but that’s too many points. I think it’s scorecard reassignment. But it could be a couple factors coming together and yes it could’ve just been from the updates. EDIT: I removed a paragraph upon further reflection, payments on a closed account would still count full monty. Closed simply means no more charges can be placed. Sorry I’ve been away, I’m rereading this from scratch to refamiliarize myself. @beets18

Birdman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:23 pm One of a couple things occurred. You said you just had two new accounts hit your report. How many did that make in total? Total open? And total open & closed? Yeah one of a couple things occurred, either scorecard reassignment or yes you may have theoretically reached the minimum amount A payment history required to get rid of that code, but that’s too many points. I think it’s scorecard reassignment. But it could be a couple factors coming together and yes it could’ve just been from the updates. Yes if it happened at a time Outside of the open to close window it might be ignored? I think it reads the field that says highest level of delinquency but it does that in conjunction with that date existing between open and close. And when they write it they have to write it where there’s an error to your benefit so… if one field says it should exist but it can’t because of another, it’s going to assume it doesn’t exist, I would think in my opinion. @Cassie does best coding practices say anything about that if not it should I would think.

All new accounts hit back in February, so there’s no changes in that regard between these two reports. Total open accounts did decrease by one, though. I went from 4 open/7 closed to 3 open/8 closed. If it was a score card reassignment, what caused the reassignment? I’ll happily take the points, but thought this could be a very interesting DP since the two reports are only 11 days apart. Regarding the BofA lates, I’m not really sure that could have been the cause since that couldn’t have changed in 11 days, but thought it was interesting to mention. It would be really interesting if I’m completely derogatory free though.

I'd say that with an 822 EQ8 score that algorithm is seeing derogatory-free data, no doubt.

I'd suggest pulling your current EQ8 report from ACR or EQ directly just to verify what's on it matches what you're seeing from EX CW.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:34 am I'd say that with an 822 EQ8 score that algorithm is seeing derogatory-free data, no doubt

I believe I’ve seen mentions of an 800 score with a dirty file, but 822 definitely seems high. CW shows no negative reason codes, but obviously there must be some. I’m also interested to see where my EQ9 ends up when PenFed updates next month. The other thing with this though, is that the closing date on BofA has been the same for years, so I don’t think it could be the change responsible for the +29 points. We are approaching 7 years since it was marked closed (May 2015 -> May 2022), but both scores in the OP are from April so we haven’t crossed any months, and I don’t think 7 years has any meaning anyway for an account that was closed in good standing.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:34 am I'd suggest pulling your current EQ8 report from ACR or EQ directly just to verify what's on it matches what you're seeing from EX CW.

I do have ACR reports from both the 3rd and the 14th, they’re attached in post #2. I mainly compared the two ACR reports against each other, and the two CW reports against each other. That way I could spot any changes, like if an account were to drop or anything. I couldn’t spot any major changes besides some new payments popping up and the one SSL closing.

@beets18 What three accounts are left open? Is there a reason you closed the fourth? What is the age of your youngest revolver? Yes I’ve heard of over 800 with a 60 day late. I think it’s in the CSP. What was the B/L on the loan closed? And it was the only loan correct? Derogatories don’t age off on the first of the month, IIRC, so it potentially could’ve been that, have you pulled a fresh ACR? Could’ve had a lot of changes in the intervening time.

Birdman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:51 am @beets18 What three accounts are left open? Is there a reason you closed the fourth?

Accounts still opened are Discover (opened 04/2021), Apple Card (opened 01/2022), and PenFed SSL #2 (opened 01/2022). The account that was closed was PenFed SSL #1 (also opened 01/2022). I closed it because PenFed screwed up the term length and put 10 months instead of 10 years. It would have been closing in October this year anyway, but I just paid it off since I had the second SSL to replace it.

Birdman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:51 am What is the age of your youngest revolver?

Opened in January, so it would be three months old.

Birdman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:51 am What was the B/L on the loan closed? And it was the only loan correct?

PenFed SSL #1 was 99% paid off when I closed it, and PenFed SSL #2 is 91% paid off. SSL #2 was already opened and reporting by the time I closed SSL #1.

Birdman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:51 am Derogatories don’t age off on the first of the month, IIRC, so it potentially could’ve been that, have you pulled a fresh ACR?

I have ACR reports from both the 3rd and the 14th. There aren't any changes in any derogs that are visible. My next late payment won't fall off until towards the end of this year.

Birdman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:51 am Could’ve had a lot of changes in the intervening time.

There definitely could have, but the only thing I can see are what I posted in the OP: 1) I closed the first SSL from PenFed that they botched (gave me a 10 month term instead of 10 years). 2) My two revolvers, and the two SSLs seem to have updated some payment info. The most reasonable explanation is probably #2, since CreditWorks dropped the "few accounts paid on time" reason, and three out of the four accounts that got updated payment info are only a few months old. IIRC, the "few accounts paid on time" was always a bit mysterious, so the main reason I posted this thread was to see if we could isolate why the reason was removed.

Maybe youngest account aging helped a bit?

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:24 am Maybe youngest account aging helped a bit?

I would have guessed the same, except the first report was from April 3 and the second was from April 14. As far as we know, aging metrics happen at the beginning of the month, correct?

You would think so, but there could have been a glitch or something for whatever reason. It's happened before with EQ, so definitely not out of the question.

"Few accounts paid on time" is a weird code that I haven't quite figured out. It seems to be referring to number of accounts with a sufficient positive payment history, but I'm not sure what that is. I've seen it pop onto my reports briefly when a new CC reported.

It's possible at least part of the score gain between these two pulls is due to the difference in reporting positive payments on open accounts. One of your new Pen Fed installments closed, removing it from consideration for this metric, and the other went from one to two mo's of reported on-time payments.

It could also be the case that "Few accounts paid on time" is still an active reason code, since iirc CW suppresses all codes for classic 8 scores of 800+. In that case its dropping from the codes you can see wouldn't be indicative of its having any particular role in your score change.

An AWB change could also be a part of it, since you went from 3 to 2.

Slabenstein wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:41 pm "Few accounts paid on time" is a weird code that I haven't quite figured out. It seems to be referring to number of accounts with a sufficient positive payment history, but I'm not sure what that is. I've seen it pop onto my reports briefly when a new CC reported. It's possible at least part of the score gain between these two pulls is due to the difference in reporting positive payments on open accounts. One of your new Pen Fed installments closed, removing it from consideration for this metric, and the other went from one to two mo's of reported on-time payments. It could also be the case that "Few accounts paid on time" is still an active reason code, since iirc CW suppresses all codes for classic 8 scores of 800+. In that case its dropping from the codes you can see wouldn't be indicative of its having any particular role in your score change. An AWB change could also be a part of it, since you went from 3 to 2.

This is insightful, especially about how CW doesn't show reason codes on 800+. It definitely seems that the extra months of payment history were a factor, as well as potentially AWB (which I wasn't sure how installment loans were considered in this). It will be interesting to see what happens when a new account shows up on my reports, since I opened a new revolver recently that hasn't been reported yet. I also am looking forward to my next PenFed EQ9, as well as my EQ5 since I just applied for a DCU savings acct. Of course those are different models, but at least PenFed doesn't seem to hide reason codes.

beets18 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:58 pm

Birdman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:23 pm One of a couple things occurred. You said you just had two new accounts hit your report. How many did that make in total? Total open? And total open & closed? Yeah one of a couple things occurred, either scorecard reassignment or yes you may have theoretically reached the minimum amount A payment history required to get rid of that code, but that’s too many points. I think it’s scorecard reassignment. But it could be a couple factors coming together and yes it could’ve just been from the updates. Yes if it happened at a time Outside of the open to close window it might be ignored? I think it reads the field that says highest level of delinquency but it does that in conjunction with that date existing between open and close. And when they write it they have to write it where there’s an error to your benefit so… if one field says it should exist but it can’t because of another, it’s going to assume it doesn’t exist, I would think in my opinion. @Cassie does best coding practices say anything about that if not it should I would think.

All new accounts hit back in February, so there’s no changes in that regard between these two reports. Total open accounts did decrease by one, though. I went from 4 open/7 closed to 3 open/8 closed. If it was a score card reassignment, what caused the reassignment? I’ll happily take the points, but thought this could be a very interesting DP since the two reports are only 11 days apart. Regarding the BofA lates, I’m not really sure that could have been the cause since that couldn’t have changed in 11 days, but thought it was interesting to mention. It would be really interesting if I’m completely derogatory free though.

@beets18 do you have any other delinquencies other than this one account?

@Birdman on EQ the BofA is my only account with any negative information.