General guide for getting to 800s?

I was having a discussion in a group about why someone cant seem to get their score to the 800s. I was wondering if there are general guidelines for what this requires? Aside from good payment history, no derogs, and low utilization (both agg and ind), I felt like time was a major factor that is often overlooked as well as no new apps/accounts for, say 2 years? I understand that you do *not* need to have a installment loan to hit 800. So do we have any idea of what sort of AAoA and/or AoOA an 800 score requires? And I assume one should avoid HPs and new accounts for at least 1 or 2 years? This person oldest account, a revolver, is only 7 years old, so I felt that probably is not long enough to get to 800. Am I wrong? Lol AITA? @Birdman @BrutalBodyShots and anyone else that has ideas?

It's been a while since I really researched this topic, but I was under the impression that one could touch an 800 score with a perfectly optimized file with an oldest account of only 3-4 years or so. There are reports from people with young files that debut with mid 700s scores and have upper 700s after maybe 2 years.

I think the constraint for many is probably the segmentation factor of young vs mature, which can be crossed at 36 months. Naturally clean is a given, thick (vs thin) can be achieved very quickly and of course no new revolver. Basically achieving the "best" scorecard can be arrived at in 3 years.

The best strategy out of the gate IMO would be achieving a thick file as quickly as possible and then opening no new accounts at all, resulting in AAoA being very close to AoOA. One could have a 3.5 year AoOA with an AAoA of 3 years, for example which in terms of scoring would be great for a clean/thick/no new revolver file.

If one of the accounts used to thicken the file were a SSL that were paid down to a single-digit utilization percentage, that would of course help. No scoreable inquiries of course as well.

So yeah... optimal scorecard of clean/thick/mature/no new revolver... all accounts opened right out of the gate or ASAP from the starting of the credit file, all revolvers with 1 SSL, no scoreable inquiries, AZEO implemented, sit on hands for ~3 years and I'd say an 800 score would be more or less a given.

My FICO's were already in the 800's the first time I saw any of them, in 2014, so unfortunately I don't know a lot about what it takes to get there starting from scratch. I know that my oldest account at that time was ~10 years, that I had seven reporting trades (4 open revolvers, 1 closed revolver, 2 open installments), that my util was low, and that I was on a new revolver scorecard.

Two days ago when I looked at my FICO scores, for the first time I noticed my EX2 score was 800 and had no negative reason codes. This was while my EX8 is at 747. My credit history this: in 2012 I opened 2 student loans. In 2013 I opened 2 more. In 2018 all four were paid in full. In 2019 I opened 2 credit cards. I pay them in full each and every month and never let the reported utilization surpass 4%. In January 2021 I applied for a home mortgage. Last month my FICO 8 was 792 and FICO 2 was 794. I applied for 2 credit cards last month and this month all my credit cards reported a zero balance.

So it is a slow simple process: have multiple credit cards, multiple loans with at least one open, a perfect payment history, no credit inquiries <1 year old, and a very low credit balance. Keeping a very low reported utilization is why my FICO 10T is greater than my FICO 10.

@Credible congrats! Having outstanding F10 scores is amazing, especially better than your regular scores! We do need a badge for that because I am thinking this is going to be tough for many to acheive at this point. I, too, believe had these F10s came out right before my app spree, I would have had pretty awesome scores, since I was always AZEO.... but, no....I got 3 new CCs, did BTs, played with utilization and AWB, and reporting high balances for kicks and data. So I basically screwed myself on that front. I wish I could know what they were back in Nov... Thank you for all your info!

Thinking back to my original reply to this thread, clearly my response was directed toward someone just starting out with credit. I looked at it from the angle of someone just beginning their credit journey and was sort of steps to take from the start to maximize the chances of an 800 score in the relative near future. Someone like @Cassie I believe kind of went this route due to being armed with the right knowledge early on. As I give it more thought, this is more of an outlier example. I think the vast majority of those that are looking for a "general guide to getting 800s" are already in the credit game... perhaps starting a rebuild or working with a non-optimized file. While much of the advice would be the same (AZEO, don't open any accounts or apply for credit, etc) there are some factors such as aging metrics that no doubt may be very different.

I can't get an 800 anywhere with the following:

AoOA: 4yr 4mo (Credit file started on 12/7/2017 with the opening of a $500 Share Secured Loan.)
AoORA: 3yr 4mo ( Waited until a year after the above to apply for my first credit card.)

4 open revolving accounts, one on each network: Mastercard, Visa, Amex, and Discover.
1 closed SSL.

Maybe 4yr 0mo for AoORA is the key?

I think that because a friend started her credit file recently with 1 single BofA credit card and her first FICO 8 score at 6 months was 750 at TransUnion.

I couldn't even get to 700 with 11 months on that SSL I opened. Type of account really matters!

What about your AAoA, @Cassie ? I think that could be the constraint.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:25 am What about your AAoA, @Cassie ? I think that could be the constraint.

3 years 1 month for AAoA - 4 open, 1 closed. 2 years 9 months for AAoOA / AAoRA - 4 open, all regular bankcards. The best I can do now is somewhere between 765 and 780 across the 8's and mortgage scores, with 0/0 inquiries everywhere and no new accounts since Feb 2020 (2yr2mo).

Not having an open installment loan under 9% utilization is costing you probably 25-30 points. It's such a screwy little hack lol.

Saeren wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:45 am Not having an open installment loan under 9% utilization is costing you probably 25-30 points. It's such a screwy little hack lol.

Agreed, which would result in 800s. My question then goes to how long you've been at 765-780, as with the addition of that SSL we could then theorize how long you "could" have already been at 800.

BrutalBodyShots wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:56 pm It's been a while since I really researched this topic, but I was under the impression that one could touch an 800 score with a perfectly optimized file with an oldest account of only 3-4 years or so. There are reports from people with young files that debut with mid 700s scores and have upper 700s after maybe 2 years. I think the constraint for many is probably the segmentation factor of young vs mature, which can be crossed at 36 months. Naturally clean is a given, thick (vs thin) can be achieved very quickly and of course no new revolver. Basically achieving the "best" scorecard can be arrived at in 3 years. The best strategy out of the gate IMO would be achieving a thick file as quickly as possible and then opening no new accounts at all, resulting in AAoA being very close to AoOA. One could have a 3.5 year AoOA with an AAoA of 3 years, for example which in terms of scoring would be great for a clean/thick/no new revolver file. If one of the accounts used to thicken the file were a SSL that were paid down to a single-digit utilization percentage, that would of course help. No scoreable inquiries of course as well. So yeah... optimal scorecard of clean/thick/mature/no new revolver... all accounts opened right out of the gate or ASAP from the starting of the credit file, all revolvers with 1 SSL, no scoreable inquiries, AZEO implemented, sit on hands for ~3 years and I'd say an 800 score would be more or less a given.

@BrutalBodyShots excellent analysis and plan with one problem: at three years there’s a significant drop and it takes time for that to build back up. Right before three years yes, right afterwards no, it would take some time to come back.

Credible wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:47 pm Two days ago when I looked at my FICO scores, for the first time I noticed my EX2 score was 800 and had no negative reason codes. This was while my EX8 is at 747. My credit history this: in 2012 I opened 2 student loans. In 2013 I opened 2 more. In 2018 all four were paid in full. In 2019 I opened 2 credit cards. I pay them in full each and every month and never let the reported utilization surpass 4%. In January 2021 I applied for a home mortgage. Last month my FICO 8 was 792 and FICO 2 was 794. I applied for 2 credit cards last month and this month all my credit cards reported a zero balance. So it is a slow simple process: have multiple credit cards, multiple loans with at least one open, a perfect payment history, no credit inquiries <1 year old, and a very low credit balance. Keeping a very low reported utilization is why my FICO 10T is greater than my FICO 10.

@Credible One of your constraints was not having enough bankcards, which you just fixed and helped you out a lot in terms of that scoring factor and the ability to have a lower AWB, I believe, IIRC?

Cassie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:32 pm I can't get an 800 anywhere with the following: AoOA: 4yr 4mo (Credit file started on 12/7/2017 with the opening of a $500 Share Secured Loan.) AoORA: 3yr 4mo ( Waited until a year after the above to apply for my first credit card.) 4 open revolving accounts, one on each network: Mastercard, Visa, Amex, and Discover. 1 closed SSL. Maybe 4yr 0mo for AoORA is the key? I think that because a friend started her credit file recently with 1 single BofA credit card and her first FICO 8 score at 6 months was 750 at TransUnion. I couldn't even get to 700 with 11 months on that SSL I opened. Type of account really matters!

@Cassie not getting that revolver until a year later definitely cost you, but we did learn a great deal from that! Yes your oldest revolver age is low for your scorecard, that’s your major problem imo. And the one more card would not hurt! But I’m not gonna be a bad influence.

As for my reply to the thread, really everybody has given the keys: first off payment history must be perfect. Well it doesn’t have to be, but without it you’ve got a big uphill battle.

Amounts owed SHD be optimized, AZEO.

Length of history should be as good as possible.

New credit should be optimized with no new accounts or inquiries < 12 months

For easiest results you should have at least five bankcards and one open loan optimized.

I think if someone did it right with a new file, it might be possible around a year. If someone followed my plan that I outlined.

For existing files, optimization is the key. Continually opening accounts will prevent you but it’s good for keeping you in the testing range, lol.

Birdman wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 9:30 pm @BrutalBodyShots excellent analysis and plan with one problem: at three years there’s a significant drop and it takes time for that to build back up. Right before three years yes, right afterwards no, it would take some time to come back.

The scorecard reassignment associated with that usually results in a drop of what, 20 points or so? I'm trying to recall back to those that have reported on that front. If so and we're talking a drop from (say) 810 to 790 on an otherwise optimized file, I wouldn't think that 800 would be out of reach for all too long under most circumstances when things like AAoA/AAoRA can give 4-5 point bumps each year, for example.